58cal roundball too small???
 

Is the 58cal roundball with 120gr Goex FFG and a roundball enough for Alaskan Brown Bear and Grizzly bear? I know you want alot of punch for bear in Alaska. I am thinking about getting the GM 58cal barrel and was just wondering because I would like to go to Alaska some day. I know they wan't you too make a shoulder shot. What do you think?

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Your shoulder may hurt more than the bear's with that much powder. :D

I have no idea on bear hide toughness. I have a 58 & I would think 90 grains would take down an elephant inside of 50 yards with proper placement.

Please! Don't ask me where proper placement on an elephant is. ;)

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I don't think I would go after dangerous game with anything other than a bullet. You do realize you are talking about some of the biggest bears in the world up there right?

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

You could ask Clint Eastwoodto borrow youone of his Smith & Wesson 44' Mags as backup? :D

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RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I am not recoil sensative. I can handle a good deal of recoil.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Well, I know that on the Lewis & Clark Expedition, a number of grizzly bears were killed with a .54-cal. round ball, so I suspect a .58 will kill them as well. In addition, a great number of Hawken rifles were made in calibers between .50 and .54 for Mountain Men who had to have something that would kill grizzlies, if necessary, and they also shot round balls!

However, unless you hit them someplace, like on the end of the nose while they are facing you so the bullet will go up the nasal cavity into the brain, or some comparable shot that gets into the brain, they will NOT usually drop dead on the spot! The bear will usually still be a live for some little time after the shot. It is during this period of time that the critter can cover a lot of ground, and do a lot of damage, to whatever happens to be in its path!

I have a .58 Hawken flintlock. It shoots the .570 PRB and the 570-grain Lyman 57730 flat-nose Minie bullet equally well, using 120 grains of FFg. The PRB is quite easy on your shoulder, but the Minie "lets you know something has happened" when it departs downrange!! I would not hesitate to use that rifle with the Minie and a powder charge of from 120 to 200 grains of FFgr for ANY ANIMAL on earth. But if I was after dangerous game in Alaska or Africa, I'd insist on having a backup guy wityh a .375 H&H or .458 Win. right there! Not because the gun is not adequate, but because it only shoots once, and who knows what can happen in the field!

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

CUE NEXT: the old saw about filing down the front sight so it won't hurt so bad... .

I would take an opportunity to hunt a big bear with a muzzleloader - even with my .50, maybe I'm not all that bright - but I think I'd use a great big heavy conical with as much powder as practical.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I ordered a copy of the NMLRA association record book the first year it was printed...The record grizzly was killed with a .54 over 120grs FF...Shot was about 100 yards and the ball was found under the hide on the off side...Bear was lung shot and ran about 60 yards....

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

That gun and your gun may not even resemble each other when you squeeze the trigger. Yours may not like over 80 grains at 100 yards. It may not like the lube - may not like your powder - may want a wad - may want deeper rifling.... way-too-many variables involved here.

Get out & try it. Because you are dealing with a violent creature, get a chrongraph to ensure penetration. Then go call Clint for that backup 44...lol:D

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Roundballs are soft lead, and lightweight. Use a conical instead. They will retain that critical penetrating weight, even if they are plainlead thanks to the higher SD.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Poster Sharp Shooter has "roundball" built into his signature at the bottom of his posts.

We all need to respect his desires/choices of this fine sport. Like I said earlier, a roundball has harvested elephants. I kinda' wish someone would develop a 72-cal rifled roundball barrel. Then we could blow our nose with the patch if need-be...lol:D

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Sharpshooter also asked for our thoughts on this load for big bears.

I don't think a conical, so long as used in a traditional ML, would at all decrease the challenge of a hunt. This was simply my recommendation, and 'food for thought' on why you'd want something with more to it, as roundballs are notorious for havingpenetration problems on bones orgenerally tough animals notso frequentlyassociated with 'traditional bullets'.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

The 58 is only a medium bore, large bore don't start till they shoot 400 grains of round ball.:D

your 58 will work just dandy for elk and smaller animals that don't want to eat you, for them, 500+ grains of lead, maybe more............and a stiff load of 2.1/2 to3 times the bore size. My 73 cal with 560grain RB and225grains ofFF is a nice stout load in a 8# gun..........that would be about my minimum for big bears.:eek:

You always need one more gun!;)

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Call me chicken...I would not intentionally go after a Grizzly with a .58cal single shot muzzleloader.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I know where you can get a rifled barrel in really big calibers!

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Well, if ya blew you're nose in the patch, you've killed two birds with one stone. You cleared your sinuses AND lubed your patch.:D[:'(]

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I like the whole traditional think with the roundball. I think if mountain men used the popular 53cal back in the 1800's then a 58cal would do. I would really like to go with the roundball if I do it some day but I could also try the ball-et. I think I would go with the roundball. I would also get a Lyman Great Plains 54cal pistol for back up:D

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Due to the slow sppeds of a ML pistol & many times poor shot groups, I would still call Clint Eastwood for a backup "multi-shot" 44 Mag. :D

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Want to barrow my 69 caliber? 200 grains 2F .678 round ball, 015 patch down a rifled barrel, real accuarte, darn gun weighs 10 pounds unloaded:D. Just kidding on the barrow, might be pursuaded to sell. I cannot wait to get back from England to start shooting again. I do think the 58 caliber is big enough, but that is only from all the reading I have done.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I was kinda' hoping someone from Green Mountain Barrel Co reads this forum/messageboard. I would like my new 72 caliber that'srifled to be a drop-in barrel for my Renegade stock.

I certainly withdrawl my suggestion if those gigantic groundballs are only accurate with 200 grains.

Do you prop yourself up against a tree trunk before squeezing that trigger?.... ouch-ouch-ouch!

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

You are correct that the Lewis and Clark guys killed grizzly bears with round balls. They did not do it on a regular basis and the first few almost ate the shooter. One in particular had to be shot several times by more than one shooter. I have had cow elk go 1/4 mile after a double lung shot and they don't try to eat you. Put me in the group that would not go after big bears with a muzzleloader (especially with a round ball unless it was bigger than I would be comfortable shooting). I got this old by only doing semi-stupid things, some of them made me limp but they didn't eat me.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

Actually recoil isn't that bad, and that is due to the weight of the rifle. I have shot it with 150 to 200 grains 2F and it is accurate with all. I do like 170 to 180 grains.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

"Like I said earlier, a roundball has harvested elephants. I kinda' wish someone would develop a 72-cal rifled roundball barrel." ???

??? There are plenty of such barrels - for example, the Pedersoli Kodiak .72 is rifled for round balls. Many barrel makers will make you one, and cut the rifling to any twist that turns you on!

This Jaegerhas a Long Hammock .73" barrel rifled 1/78" with wide, shallow grooves made especailly to shoot .735" round balls that weigh in at 597.5 grains. I shoot them with 150 grains of Swiss FFg and a .010" T/C prelubed patch. Ball MV is 1500 FPS. I have no doubt that these balls will kill the biggest bear out there......




"Do you prop yourself up against a tree trunk before squeezing that trigger?.... ouch-ouch-ouch!"

Now, that WOULD be a good way to get a smashed shoulder!

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

WOW -- talk about beauty!

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

I have heard of 4ga muzzleloaders with rifled barrels for elephant!!! I think a 58cal prb would do.

RE: 58cal roundball too small???
 

If you folks ever get to Northern Alberta there is a large Griz. that was shot by a native lady with a .22 cal. I believe it wasFaust, Albertaand it was mounted in a standing position and is well over 8 ft. This bear shot in the Swan Hills was charging the lady and all she had was a .22 short in the rifle and she shot the bear in the eye. Lucky?YES!

The moral of the story is the same for all game- place your shot and if she is questionable then don't take it. If they ever re-instate the griz hunting in Alberta I will gladly take my .50 (with conicals) after them. Though I will have a back up and a large supply of toilet paper.