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ORIGINAL: DocHunter

Thanks for the info. Now I am looking forward to trying it. Do you get improved groupings with use of the filler?

I haven't, but they did not worsen either. I suspect it could be possible to get an improved grouping, depending on charge, type of powder, and projectile. I think it could improve conical groupings with APP for instance. But the reality is in actual performance.

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Oh, let me also say this. With the slow moving (1350 fps) conicals the effects of velocity distribution can be important. For example, at 100 yards, I shot a 2" vertical spread ina 6 shot group this morning. Was windy, so the horizontal spread was around 5.5 " Thats an excelent vertical spread considering that it my pointing precision which accounts for almost ALL of it. I shoot open sights,so the consistency in muzzle velocity that the filler provides makes up for some of my sighting imprecision. So yes, in my experience, fillers can improve groupings but the effect I have experience has beenin vertical spans of my groupings.

The best results were with PRB where there was a 17% increase in ME from a 5 grain filler. Look at the Yep, I shot roundball thread for more information on my findings there. I think theres alot more blow-by with the PRB, so its benefit is considerable.

One other thing, I don't think a guy should use a maximum load with a filler. Fillers increase pressures and this should be taken into account.

I've started with modest charges and they are nowhere close the maximums allowed in my rifles. One of the things I do is relate the performance with filler to the performance without filler on an increased charge. For example, 60 grains pyro-p with 5 grain filler is equal to 70-75 grains pyro-p in muzzle energy with a .490 PRB in my hawken. I think a filler load which equates a maximum load's muzzle energyshould be considered amaximum filler load. A chrony is handy for this.

Phil