Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Well, I may have finally found the "magic bullet" for my Omega. Went out for a couple of hours yesterday. Decided to go back to Pyrodex and see what would happen. Tried 370 grain maxiballs: 3" group at 25 yards was the best I could do. Buffalo bullets were even worse. Then I tried the new 338 platinum powerbelts with 100, 110 and 120 grains of pyrodex.With 120 grains of pyrodex, I shot 9 bullets at 100 yards. With a peep sight, 7 of the nine were within a 5 inch group.2 fliers made the group 6-1/2 inches. Going to go back out and try that combo several more times, but since my personal max is 100 yards, I think I have finally found a combination that I can have confidence in. At least in the2 Omegas I have tried the new platinum powerbelts in, they have been accurate. Just hope they live up to their billing in terminal performance.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Those do sound interesting. And it looks like they are going to work for you. Keep us posted if you have a chance to use them in a hunting situation. I'd be interested as well as a number of others as to how they do. That should be a nasty load with that kind of powder charge and that bullet.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

cayugad,They seem to work ok[Platinium PB] I had a chance to try some in my Omega [I have a two and a halfpower scope on it] and shot two groups with 150 APP_FF since thats what the others shoot good with both groups were right at 2 inchs not bad for PB's. Lee

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Txhunter58,

That's great news. Definitely a group you can hunt at 100 yards with. I hope you have a successful hunt and look forward to hearing about it. I'll be hunting about 60 miles north of where you are hunting. With a little luck, maybe we'll all fill our tags.

Phil

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Good job 58 I still think with a little more work you can do better then 5 in groups but thats a start.

LEMOYNE ???? Can you tell me what the difference in POI is between the reg. shock waves and the new platiniums are. I have a feeling that TC is going to do away with the old shock waves after this year. I hope not but it woulden't be the first product I have really liked that was done away with

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I've also found it difficult to work up a good load in my Omega. Since I'm hunting CO, I have to use conicals. The best I've worked up so far is 460 No Excuses with 120 gr 777. I get about 3 in groups at 30 yards. I am not excited about that and have decided that 50 yds is my shot limit this year. The platinums sound interesting, but I don't think they are legal in CO. I think I can only use 100% lead. I have also tried MaxiBalls and Great Plains. Now, Shockwaves shoot great at 100yds.........

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

You can use ANY .50 caliber powerbelt bullet in Colorado. ALL .50 cals are legal. So if you shoot PB's better in your Omega, by all means, use them.

Phil

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Don't know if you been following this but txhunter58 is shooting open sights. From his previous posts it would seem his 100 yard sighting presicionwith his peep is probably 1.5 MOA, which is excellent.NO conicals shoot well from his omegaand I'm satisfied that the majority of the remaining 3.5 MOA is the fault of the omega.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I just re-read the regulations and you are correct. I wonder why I was under that impression. Did the regs change for 2006? I thought there was, or used to be, a 100% lead (no plating) rule.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

As far as I know, PB's of 50 cal. have always been legal for elk in Colorado, even the plated ones. What did change (I think) for 2006 is that .50 cal RB is now legal for elk. Best I can tell, .45 RB isn't legal for any big game.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Never heard of a "lead only" rule in colorado ML book. I just checked and the powerbelt is legal. They just dont allow sabots because a sabot is an under sized caliber. In order to hunt elk with a muzzleloader in colorado, it must be a .50 or bigger firing a bullet 170 grains or more in a .50 and 210 grains or more in .54 or larger. Any bullet is Legal. Just No sabots. A power belt is not a sabot. Get a box and try them out. I know the old powerbelts work great,havnt tried the new ones yet. But get a box of grainage that you want and go practice. You will need to get more yardage out of that rifle than 50 yards. For the price you paid for that gun, I would really get my butt in gear and buy some powerbelts to try out. Good luck to you on sighting in the rifle and on the hunt.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

While a lot of Omega's don't like conicals most will do a decent job with PB's I don't use the for hunting because they shoot with the best accuracy out of mine with 150 gr of APP FF or RS and at that velicity they fragment of course I can shoot any normal bullet here so I just pick the most accurate. Several of my friend like them but they are having good results from 80 t0 100 gr. Lee

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I am also hunting elk in Colorado this year, so as others have stated, all the plated powerbelts are legal in Colorado. However, I would not consider 3" groups at 25 yards to be adequate. What if you wound one and need to do a follow up shot at 75-100 yards. Very doable if you find the right load.

As also stated, I have had a 3 year attempt at finding a decent load for my Omega. What I finally had to do was to go back to using pyrodex. I love the clean up of the newer powders like 777, but just can't get really good accuracy. My Omega shot a 5" group with 777 and no excuses at 25 yards! With the load mentioned above, I shot a 3shot group with 2 in the same hole and 1 shot 3/4 inch away at 25 yards.

It also seems like Omegas don't like big conicals. While I do like bigger conicals with elk, I think that the load above will be more than adequate. I also had half way decent accuracy with 348 and 405 grain aerotips and 777. My gun liked 90 grains of 777 with a 348 and 95 grains of 777 with 405's. However, neither load came close to the above grouping. I was getting 8-10 inch groups at 100 yards, and that was off a bench with sand bags.

Remember that loose 777 is about 15% hotter than pyrodex, so my 90-95 grains has plenty of energy for any elk in Colorado (aprox equvilent to 105-110 grains of black powder/pyrodex). Not only does your 120 grains of 777 load pack a real wallop in recoil, but is approaching the safe limit in the Omega. 120 grains would be equvilent to about 138 grains of pyrodex. Probably still safe, but I would not hesitate to drop the load down to 90 grains and see where she hits.

If I were you, I would grab some different sizes of powerbelts and a jug of 777 and pyrodex and see if you can get some better accuracy. We are shortimin!

Good luck!

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I've tried everything from 80 grains up to 120 grains with the Great Plains, MaxiBalls and No Excuses. The 120 grain with the No Excuses was the best grouping for me. I'm definitely going to try the PBs. I had heard so many good things about the No Excuses (from this forum), that I was determined to make them work. I also tried them with fiber wads with no success. Thanks for your recommendations, hopefully I can get something shooting decent.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

sounds like you and I have had very similar experiences. Just remember that going back to pyrodex was the only way I found what I consider acceptable accuracy. Hopefully you can find some with powerbelts and 777.

I also tried Black mag3 and APP and they were worse in my gun than 777.

The kicker is that my brother got an identical Omega and his gun shoots what ever bullet and powder you put through it.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Am I off-base here, or should we expect more consistency from a brand of muzzleloader than that? I know we all say, "thisrifle likes this", "An this un likes this", "Oh and this un will shoot about anything you stuff down it" It seems to me that there is very little effort payed to producing weapons which perform consistently. To make matters worse, we as consumers almost uniformly accept this about muzzleloading rifles giving the manufacturers, basicly, a free out, to defects in workmanship, settling on good enough or marginally huntable.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

i was at wal-mart today and clerk was stacking shelf withnew pb platinum bullets.they were 11.67 a pack. also the hollow point ones were 11.67 a pack. thats my new bullet now for my hawkins.295 pb hollow point,around 80 grs of 2f in .50 cal.no more bore butter to mess with in buck season. all my family are using pb now.for target we are using rb.348 may be better bullet but i like the 295 in 1-48 twist.i like the hollow point because i can LOAD DOWN not up on my charges.bullet will open.no flinching/no recoil/ no noise to much/ not as much KABOOM.this makes me a much better shooter.i am OLD SCHOOL.ha

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I've certainly been thinking about this. If the gun did not shoot saboted bullets as well as it does I would probably send it in to TC. I still may if the PBs do not perform.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Fillae, if you send it back to T/C, be sure and tell them in the first sentence that you know that they've been sending alot them back unrepaired because they shoot a decent pattern with shockwaves. Also let them know that T/C advertises the Omega as a suitable choice for conicals. And that you don't want it back until they can make it fit for the purpose you need and the purpose they advertise it for.

Good luck if you do, Phil

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I would also add to tape a note on the gun itself saying that you want them to call you and discuss the problem with the gun before they do anything. I basically sent them my gun with a very detailed note saying that I HAD to shoot conicals and it would not shoot them well. As I stated previously, all they did was shoot sabots and send it back saying that there was nothing wrong with it.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Mike Hill,The POI was about 1.5 inch differance I am sighted with SW250 at 2 inch high @100 the PBPlatiniums chewed the bottom of the center out. Shot one through a 4x4 to day blew a hole the size of my fist out the back side and there was enough left to kick up the dust on the bunker 150 yd behind, I think they are much improved. Lee

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

fillae,they can be much different from one to another. Mine won't shoot anything but Pryodex ,Black or APP-FF real well.
I guess considering every thing thats been said you might try the 270 gr Sabor Tooth and the new PBP in 250 gr and 338 grMost Omegas will shoot them while the majority don't like them big bullets. Lee

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

The innovative pivoting ignition system of TC's Omega has revolutionized the black-powder industry. TC's patented pivoting action seals the 209 primer tight, ensuring 100% of the fire from the primer goes into the powder charge. There's no need for a capper or any other priming system, just insert the primer into the primer hole and close the breech. The magnum charge capability, up to 150 grains of black powder or Pyrodex®, sends slugs thundering downrange. Quick-Load Accurizer Muzzle System on the 28" barrel makes loading easy, and 1-in-28" twist stabilizes sabots for tack-driving accuracy. The pivoting action also makes the .50-caliber Omega easy to clean. There's no bolt assembly or breech assembly to clean, and you don't have to disassemble it to remove the breech plug. Tru-Glo® fiber-optic inserts in adjustable all-steel sights. Rifles are available rifle only, rifle with scope, rifle with starter kit, or rifle with scope and starter kit.

I found that on cabelas website. It seems like it was made for sabots and pyrodex. Who knows. All i know is, after seeing all these posts, i wont spend $575 for one. I wont even spend the $375 lowest price on it lol.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Omega's probably aren't the best choice for conicals but mine shoots 348 gr PBs pretty well. If you use the orignal PBs I would keep the powder (777 anyway) at 100grs or less. I killed a deer using 115 grs and the bullet really came apart, no exit at 40 yds. Maybe the new ones will stay together better. My Omega shot about 1 1/2 inch groups with that load.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I have owned two T/C 209x50 (which may use the same barrel as the Omega). Both were extremely finicky about the loads they would shoot well. With my first, I was so frustrated that I was about to wrap the barrel around a tree because it would not shoot ANY load in the T/C manual that would consistently even hit a 4' x 4' target holder at 100 yards after grouping reasonably well at 50 yards. Fortunately, I was directed to Precision Rifle Muzzleloading Bullets (http://www.prbullet.com/). Their staff advised two bullets to try. Without changing anything except using their bullets, I was grouping 2" at 100 yards. The bullets they advised were a 300 gr. conical with a polycarbonate tip and a 330 gr. hollow-point, both with sabots. I use both with charges of 100 to 150 gr. of Pyrodex with great results. I have taken several deer with the 300 gr. bulletand one bull elk with the 330 gr. bullet. I promptly bought a few hundred bullets in both weights after seeing how well they shot.
It can be very frustrating to find the specific bullet and charge that any muzzleloader likes, but it seems that a "pet" load can be found for almost any muzzleloader. In spite of the frustration I had in working up a load for the Encore, T/C has been outstanding in regard to advise and service. Their guns have lifetime warranties and there has been no charge for any service I have requested from them on 3 different guns.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Saboted bullets are not a problem, but unfortunately in CO we can only use full bore conicals.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Precision Bullets also provide conicals, which I am confident would be equal in quality and results. Give them a call. I have found them very willing to discuss problems.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Txhunter 58: I know you want to get that Omega to shoot conicals, but it seems like you're trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip. What about getting a sidelock with a 1in48" twist designed to shoot conicals? I know that buying another firearm wasn't exactly in your plans. I just think it might save you a ton of time and extra headaches.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

If I were going to get a conical shooter in a traditional style rifle I would look at the Lyman Great Plains Hunter with the 1-32 twist. If I wanted an inline rifle that shot conicals, I would look at a White Rifle in .504 or if legal where you hunt, .451 caliber.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Why are these Omega's so finicky? Why is it so hard to get a second and third(I can not get a third in mine) shot loaded? I use an RCBS adjustable 50 caliber mold. I use pure lead(no tin). Bullet weight is 500 grains. I know you guys are probably laughing at this load. I shoot it in front of 120 grains of 3F black powder. It hurts to shoot this load, I am sure it is too much. This load shoots well in a dozen different ML's. 2-3 inch groups at 100 yds. I get the lead from church windows(so we call it holy lead). I can hear you guys laughing at me(I have been shooting BP for 37 years). All I can say is that I have shot 2 elk, both were pass through, 1 was quartering. Both acted truly sick when hit, neither went 50 yds. Have killed countless deer here in WV, taken many right off their feet, Tom.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Sounds like you have a great load. Unfortunately, my Omega won't shoot big lead conicals. Have tried a bunch.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Ok, one last update for me. I hit the range again and have come away with two CO elk loads that shoot well in my Omega. The first is 410 gr Great Plains with 90 grains Pyrodex. The second, and the one I am going with is 338 gr Powerbelt Platinum with 80 grains of 777. I had 5 inch groups at 100yds with both loads. The deciding factor is that 777 is so much cleaner in my gun. There was no drop at 100yds for either load. I think I am finally ready go, which is a good thing since the season starts Sept 9th.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

i am no expert by any means but 5 inchs at 100 yds,i dont think thats good?i can do better than that with flintlock .50 cal with open sights.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Maybe so, but 2 weeks ago he was getting 3 inch groups at 30 yards, so this is a vast improment. And 5" groups at 100 yards with an open sight is not too shabby in my book.

Good luck in Colorado.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I you take an average of group sizes at 100 yards with open sights... counting fliers,because I have seen people shoot a group and then not count fliers, five inches is not all that bad. Two weeks agoI had a person claiming that they shot 3-1/2 inch groups consistently at 100 yards. The best he could pull on my range with patched ball that day was4-3/4 inches. Now I am not saying that he does not have his good days and shoot some excellent groups, but the average tends to be much bigger. I once shot just over an inch and a half group with open sights out of my .58 caliber Renegade. I have never been able to do that since, nor repeat it on that same day. Still I would never claim that I shoot an inch and an half group at 100 yards.

The important thing is the rifle showed marked improvement. Now comes the tweeking and practicing to get that group size down even more if possible. If not then aim true and good luck with your elk hunting. I just wish it were me going hunting.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

Mike Hill,sorry about the delay was in the hospital for a while.
The 245gr PB and 250 gr SW group about 2 inches apart at 100yds the omega is '0' for thSW and the PB's shoot low and slightly to the right.
I was using 125 gr APP-FF for the SW and 150gr for the PB's. Lee

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I have no doubt I could get better groups if I kept going down in powder, but there is a trade-off there. The majority of shots in the unit I hunt will be 50 yds and in, so I am confident in my setup to get the job done. Now that I at least have a starting point I can work on fine-tuning it next year.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I am real curious is Cayugad's cornmeal "wad" might shrink those groups down too. If you have time, you might at least try that.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

I bought some fiber wads from "Track of the Wolf" and they didn't help a bit, but I didn't try them using Pyrodex. I think practice will shrink those groups more than anything now.

RE: Finally, some accuracy in my Omega
 

i was under the impression he was using a scope not open sights.with scope i think 5 inchs is terrible. yes, with open sights i agree as you can move .