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Crud ring location?

Old 07-31-2006, 02:51 PM
  #1  
Fork Horn
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Default Crud ring location?

I was shooting my CVA Kodiak Mag over the weekend. I usually use a load consisting of 2 777 pellets topped with a 223 grain powerbelt aerotip. I get great accuracy and have killed deer out to 150 yards with this load. I always use a brass jig followed by a wet then two dry patches for cleaning between shots. If I do not cleanthis way I cannot get the powerbelt to seet the same depth everytime due to the crud ring. My brother asked me why I don't just add the third 777 pellet on follow up shots instead of cleaning. His theory was the crud ringafter the first shot with two pellets, would be close enough to the breech plug to be eclipsed by three pellets. Therefore, eliminating the cleaning and allowing a faster follow up shot if needed. I realize the accuracy might change, but does anybody know if this might work. It did peak my curiosity. I guess I would have to know the general distance between the crud ring and the breech plug.
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:00 PM
  #2  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

Well the first thing is your accuracy might be very different. Also that is a maximum load in your rifle. Powerbelts normally shoot better with less then magnum loads although this is not always the case.

I would instead, perhapstry some Pyrodex Pellets instead of the Triple Se7en if you're that concerned about a fast second shot. Otherwise, make the first shot count, take your time, swab the rifle, load the next load like normal, and by then if you placed the first one right, the animal should be down or well on the way.

Another idea is find something that can be loaded as a second shot, with reasonable accuracy for a follow up instead of the powerbelt.

It is an interesting delima.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:08 PM
  #3  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

Try APP or Gold, I gave up on 777 the crud rings were awful with APP-FF or sticks 3 or 4 shots is no problem some shoot 10 or 12 but I like to wipe often enough so I dont have to actually clean. Lee
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Old 07-31-2006, 07:00 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

With most powders your second or third shot will be loaded a bit higher in the barrel due to fowling period. With T7 the crud ring makes it hard to clean but the volume of space taken by the fowling is about the same as bp or Pyrodex.

It seems the area below the bullet gets most of the fowling and that restricts the size of the bore. I am not alarmed to find shots that seat a bit above the "witness" mark on the ramrod within reason. As long as I know I seated the projectile firmly I am not worried.

I do like loose powder because it helps me determine if everything is working right.

Just for the record if you like T7 but have crud ring problems in your rifle run a very wet patch (water only is fine) down till you hit the crud wait a few seconds and then clean as you always do. T7 needs a bit more liquid to clean but does not need strong solvent.
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Old 07-31-2006, 07:56 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

i have something i want you to try cause it worked for me, so its not like rocket science.
reminton makes a primer that is made just for muzzel loaders.
its model #209ml i dont know why they work so well but they do.
and ya got to have primers any way.so why not use one that cuts the crud.
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:00 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

ORIGINAL: Pittsburghunter

With most powders your second or third shot will be loaded a bit higher in the barrel due to fowling period. With T7 the crud ring makes it hard to clean but the volume of space taken by the fowling is about the same as bp or Pyrodex.

It seems the area below the bullet gets most of the fowling and that restricts the size of the bore. I am not alarmed to find shots that seat a bit above the "witness" mark on the ramrod within reason. As long as I know I seated the projectile firmly I am not worried.
Right, and I sometimes think the reason for the higher seat is purely the result of the volume occupied by fouling below the previous seat lifting the powder column. Not specifically contact with this heavier fouling by the bottom of the next loaded projectile.

Anyway its best to make the first shot count, then one can take all the time in the world loading the second round. Usually, it doesn't matter whether it takes 10 seconds or 60 seconds to load that second round. I personally think its more important to relax and take one's time loading again so that mistakes aren't made. For example, loading a bullet with out a charge, or forgetting to prime. Better to do it slowlybut correctlythan do it fast and get it wrong.

Happy Hunting, Phil
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Old 08-01-2006, 08:26 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

All the talk about a great first shot is fine for deer; but I hunt elk by myself and do not want them walking to the bottom of a ravine before they fall down. I want a second shot available fast as they are tough and I have had heart shot cows walk off for almost ten minutes before they dropped. I had one cow with a double lung shot and a second one made when she was running at about 100 yards that took out the liver walk and run over a half mile before I finally managed to head shoot her. She saw me and had the adrenaline pumping apparently. That is why I am presently using Black Mag'3. I have such severe crud rings with 777 that I refuse to use the stuff. That second shot was within 30 second or less of the first shot which would be impossible with 777 in my rifle.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:11 AM
  #8  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

ORIGINAL: MLKeith

All the talk about a great first shot is fine for deer; but I hunt elk by myself and do not want them walking to the bottom of a ravine before they fall down. I want a second shot available fast as they are tough and I have had heart shot cows walk off for almost ten minutes before they dropped. I had one cow with a double lung shot and a second one made when she was running at about 100 yards that took out the liver walk and run over a half mile before I finally managed to head shoot her. She saw me and had the adrenaline pumping apparently. That is why I am presently using Black Mag'3. I have such severe crud rings with 777 that I refuse to use the stuff. That second shot was within 30 second or less of the first shot which would be impossible with 777 in my rifle.
Sure hope that doesn't happen to me. I'm gonna be shooting with 3f Black Powder for elk so my first shot needs to do its work and work well. What was the projectile and charge you were using that day?

Happy Hunting, Phil
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:02 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

Use a cooler priimer like Winchester/Triple Se7en 209s or Remington Kleanbore 209.

Switch to 777 FFF loose powder .. it's smaller/cleaner - thus a tad softer fouling.

Get yourself a palm-saver or T-Handle device for the end of your ramrod. Gives you more powder to push/more leverage for loading bullets.

Use a bore brush instead of a jag for swabbing. Then use the jag for seating the bullet. I always take two ramrods to the range. Keep your patches wet to the touch & turn the ramrod clockwise a revolution or three when you reach the bore-bottom -- for better cleaning of the crud area - then clean with up & down strokes.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:16 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: Crud ring location?

ORIGINAL: Pglasgow

ORIGINAL: MLKeith

All the talk about a great first shot is fine for deer; but I hunt elk by myself and do not want them walking to the bottom of a ravine before they fall down. I want a second shot available fast as they are tough and I have had heart shot cows walk off for almost ten minutes before they dropped. I had one cow with a double lung shot and a second one made when she was running at about 100 yards that took out the liver walk and run over a half mile before I finally managed to head shoot her. She saw me and had the adrenaline pumping apparently. That is why I am presently using Black Mag'3. I have such severe crud rings with 777 that I refuse to use the stuff. That second shot was within 30 second or less of the first shot which would be impossible with 777 in my rifle.
Sure hope that doesn't happen to me. I'm gonna be shooting with 3f Black Powder for elk so my first shot needs to do its work and work well. What was the projectile and charge you were using that day?

Happy Hunting, Phil
The first shot was 90gr. Black Mag'3 and a Hornady 300gr. SST. The follow up shot was a 295gr. copper clad aerotip Powerbelt. Both bullets were complete pass through and the holes on the exit side were about the same size as a fifty cent piece. I am going to try some heavier bullets this year as I got drawn for antlerless elk again and there are now more bullets to chose from. I may try the deadcenter 390gr. bullets and maybe the 348 powerbelt as a follow-up as they load a lot easier as a second shot. I think I will still stick with the Black Mag'3 unless my trials show me something better. I bought some Goex Pinnacle to try also. If no bone is hit the 300gr. bullets are probably as effective as heavier ones as long as they go completely through.
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