Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

I am new to your forum here and thought I could ask around and get your opinion about the three ML's I am really looking at purchasing for the up coming deer season in Missouri. I am an avid bowhunter and do not have any past experience with black powder and muzzleloaders.

I am looking at the Omega Pro Hunter, Savage Smokeless ML10 and White ML's. I have done a search here on the board and did not see much on the Savage.

I know you guys have shoot many different ML and black powder rifles ~ if you have the time could you tell me your thoughts and recommendations between these ML's? Thanks a bunch. Jeff

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

I have an Omega (older stainless one) and am pleased with the performance with sabots and synthetic black powders other than Tripple Seven which my Omega will not shoot without a severe crud ring. If my state allowed smokeless powder I would have a Savage as I like the company and the convenience of using smokeless would be a big advantage for hunting. The White is great if you want to shoot big conicals and standard black powder or Pyrodex; I don"t have one but would like to add one to my mix at some time. I also have an NEF which is quite a nice rifle considering the low price and great once I replaced the breechplug with the 25ACP conversion one.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Do you mean an Encore Pro-Hunter?

All can make you happy; it just depends on what you are looking for. As for info on the Savage:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloader_index_10ML-II.htm

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Why are you asking us for the Savage smokeless option? That is a powder option that only you can decide. Or are you considering only using blackpowder and/or substitutes with the Savage?

You also listed White Rifles? Please offer readers here a dealer name, address & phone number/website that has NEW (not refurbished)White Rifles.

In my non-smokeless opinion, life is grand owning a Stainless Steel, Laminated Thumbhole Omega. The Encores are wonderful if you desire purchasingtheir very expensive aftermarket barrel options.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Randy, you are correct I was talking about the Encore Pro Hunter ~ I had just read something about the Omega so I guess I typed that in my post, oops.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Triple, I would use the Savage with smokeless powder ~ and comparing that to the Encore Pro Hunter that isblackpowder ML.

You hit the nail on the head about the White Rifles, I cannot find a new one out there ~ I heard Doc had a few for sale earlier this summer but I guess they are all sold at this time.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

All three rifles are great rifles without argument. What you need to look at is the kind of projectiles you want to hunt with an what you're looking for in the rifle.

The Savage without doubt from all my reading are excellent quality rifles. There are some nice ones out there used for sale right now also. The Savage will do all you need it to do. Randy Wakeman, who responded to your post is the one of the peopleto talk to for any and all questions about a Savage.

Thompson Center Pro Hunter is the new Encore twin so to say. So far from all the people who have purchased one, they are very pleased with the over all accuracy, and the way the rifle functions. Also you have Thompson Center's customer service to back you should there be a problem. Personally I do not like the stock design of the Encore and would go with the Omega since I have no desire to switch out barrels. Then again, if I shot a Encore or Pro Hunter I would probably change that statement also. The Omega is a great choice in a hunting rifle by the way.

The White rifle is a great rifle. They will shoot both conicals and sabots very well. BUT as stated, White Rifle Company is a thing of the past from all I hear. They are a great shooting rifle and I think one of them would last you for a life time, but should you need work on it, you may be hard pressed to find that. Although there are a number of dedicated White Rifle owners out there that still support White rifle and would sure try to help you out should you need any thing. I own a White Ultra Mag and love the rifle. There is no way I would ever sell my White.

Iown Thompson Centers, White, Knights, and CVA inline rifles. All of them are good shooters. But in your case if it were me, I would look at the Pro Hunter and then later buy myselfa White or Savage to compliment my collection and give me more toys to play with. But for the one rifle, stick to the Pro Hunter or the Savage if smokeless shooting is really something you want to get into..

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Cayugad, thanks for your time and information with your post. I do appreciate it. My state does allow the smokeless powder and that is the way I am leaning ~ I just wanted to get a few more opinions. I spoke to Randy in the past and have read up on the Savage and Pro Hunter, including joining several of the forums.

The rifle is going to be used 99% of the time for whitetail hunting in Missouri. I will bepracticingat the range and figure out what loads work the best in my ML ~ but I do not think I would be out at the range shooting it for recreation or in a league if that makes sense.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

mo bowhunter,

Welcome to the forum!

Any of the rifles you mentioned will serve very well indeed. All of which have their own features and idosyncracies. Not having shot the ProHunter Encore, I cannot tell you anything other than they should shoot very sweet.

Your best bet is to shoulder and sight as many ML's as you can to gain a feel for what best suits your need. You are the one that has to carry and should the weapon, so let your instincts take you the rest of the way as you have selected excellent weapons. Knights are also very good. As far as smokeless, that's up to you. Really other that cleanliness, there nothing the Savage can do with smokeless that it cannot do with 777 or other cleaner shooting substitute black powders. Even with smokeless, you still need to clean the Savage.

I have shouldered the ProHunter Encore and it really feels sweet at the shoulder. I will have one either this year or next.

To sum up, put them to your shoulder and ask alot of questions. Don't rely on the sales clerk as they are there to sell you something.

Most of us here are not.

Good luck and welcome!

Tahquamenon

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

He's probably asking about the Savage because he is interested init. I think that is what this board is all about.

Regarding the White's. I bought two BRAND NEW Ultra Mags for my son and I from Sportsman's Warehouse a few weeks ago. After shooting them, I purchased another BRAND NEW one for my Dad and it was delivered yesterday by the FED EX delivery man. I think there still might be a couple out there and they are not hard to find. Look up Sportsman's Warehouse on the internet and call any of them. They can do a search. If I couldn't have got them, I would have got a referbished one. They are as simple of a design as I could ever imagine. I got all the replacement parts I could ever imagine needing from Doc. These parts are so simple they could easily be duplicated by any machine shop for very little money.

Read what the people that actually have them say, not someone who is just out to bash them.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Who is bashing them?? Please copy & paste that Hunting.net post/thread right here. If you are being truthful, well lets see the post and/or thread.

Otherwise... please continue to post here in a TRUTHFUL MANNER(or)go away please to another ML board where White Rifle lies are acceptable.

I NEVER QUESTIONED THIS GUY ABOUT HIS SAVAGE! I questioned how he had planned on using the rifle.

Get some comprehensioncells workinginside your brain please.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Last I checked this was an any ML weapon forum, not specifically one manufacturer or another. About the time that this forum becomes a vendor specific site I will be gone for sure.

I also don't think there was anyone bashingany riflesin thisthread.

A fella asked a question and folks have tried to answer.

M2C

Tahquamenon

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Hi Mo
They only one I know who has all three is Loggy,however I am close, asI have a white,Savage, and an Omega.Cascadedad has some good advice on the White.The Savage if legal and you can use scopes is by far a better long range rifle. It truly is an honest 200+ yard gun. However you need a powder scale. There is a ton of info on forums about the Savage. Big thing is you don't need to clean it very often.This is the rifle I use in WI. for our ML season.
The White Ultra-mag is truly an awesome rifle It really feels good,shoots conicals (make sure you get right ones). like you wouldn't believe. I haven't shot sabots out of it as that is not what I bought it for. I go to Co. and its conicals only.
The Omega will shoot anything quite well. I shot a bull elk with it last year but this year I am using the white. I feel it is a better conical shooter.
The Omega is very easy to clean and user friendly and that is what I recommend to new shooters.
If I could only have one with the hunting I do it would be the White. WI. doesn't allow scopes over 1x and CO. no scopes at all.
Cascadedad let me know where you got your last Ultra-mag. I want another.
Redclub

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

First of all, Cascadedad is not stating anything that is a lie.He did exactly what he said he did. I think some people are well served to hide THEIR realitybehind the mask of the internet.

I don't own a Savage but I'm sure it's a very nicely made rifle. It is middle of the road pricewise when compared to the White Ultra Mag at 299 (if you can find a Sportsman's Warehouse that still has any left, they sold very quickly at that price) and the Encore ProHunter at around 800. It would be hard to say which of those three rifles would make a nice Missouri deer the deadest.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Sorry to bring my lyin ways to this board. Forget where I was. I'll try to keep my lyin over there on that other board where White Rifle lies are not only acceptable, but expected.:)

Redclub, my last purchase was from the Loveland, Colorado store. I worked through Drew and the phone is 970-461-5000. But.......I think mine was the last one there. As of about 3 weeks ago, there were a couple still left in Alaska. Shipping will be more from there, but if I wanted another, I would go for it.

My last one, including WA state sales tax and shipping was $330 to my front door.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Well, the Encore pro hunter is expensive and will require an atf firearms form to be filled out since it has a serialed frame and can be converted to a rifle, pistol, and shotgun. I have no experience with the White rifles just what I have read which is good. The problems with the companywould affect me buying one as my first muzzleloadersimply for that reason. Maybe as a second or third like stated by another. The Savage is a strong muzzleloader and has the capability of using backpowder, substitutes, and smokeless which is a plus. They have an excellent trigger if you get one of the new ones. I have seen some video hunts where extreme shots have been made with these rifles not saying that the other brands wont because Ive seen some ofthem doit too. I personally would go with a regular encore frame and buy the pro hunter barrel myself at a cheaper price. Your going to pay more for that engraved frame. The barrels will fit any frame in the encore line i.e.,(pro hunter, regular stainless, regular blued). Also, with the encore you have the options of having a pistol, rifle, and shotgun by just spending another 200.00 to 300.00 on a barrel, sometimes alot cheaper if you find them used or on sale. I would vote for the encore. I have one in rifle, pistol, and soon to be muzzleloader. They have really treated me well on warranty work. They have one of the best service departmentsin the business.Remember, buy your frame and then buy the pro hunter barrel unless you really want the engraved frame. My 2 cents. Good Luck!!!!

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

mo_bowhunter

Just my two-bits... of the rifles you suggested let me say the best warranty out there comes with the TC. Second the Savage is an awesome gun, but the most versitile of the bunch is the White. If an inline is legal in your chosen ML hunting the White can meet all of the requirements. It will shoot 600 grain conicals all the way down to 10mm 200 grain bullet sabot combinations and it will shoot them accurately.

The gun itself is is strong, it is built with incredible strength and simplicity.

Of the the 3 you suggested I would choose a White - specifically the White Ultra Mag. I to belive there are a few left in the Sportsmans Warehouse system you will just have to search them out. There are at least two in Alaska but shipping to the lower states could be $30.00/$40.00 - but well worth it considering you are paying $299.00 for the gun.

Best of luck in whatever you choose....

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Does anyone have pictures of their White Ultra Mag they could send me. I went to the White Rifles webpage and could not find any information on them, although it looked like the website has not been updated in some time.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Copy & paste from another ML messageboard - if you like! Copy & paste it right here at Hunting.Net. Problem is ... you won't find any White Rifle-bashing from me. It doesn't exist. Go back an entire year if you like. Search thru 20 messageboards. But when you done searching & come up enpty-- promise me this..... don't lie/make false accusationsanymore here or elsehwere on the internet.

I have merely questionedWhite's prior ownership in the past year. In the past week, I questioned why Doc White would enter one of his Whitesinto that 2006 Shooting Championship. I know my own answer to that - why "I think" he entered again. The answer is pretty simple.... he wants attention given tothe brand-name -- so a new buyer for his once proud company can be found & will continue to bear his own"White" name on an exterior neonsign over the new business entrance front door.

Just my opinion....

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

mine is the .504 caliber Ultra Mag with the laminate stock and stainless steelbarrel.



This was a 60 yard group out of the rifle. With a 495 grain conical I think most any deer will be in a world of hurt if it happens to try and slow that down.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

You don't get it. I was talking about the other ML board where everyone lies about how good the Whites are all the time. I'll go there and tell lies with them. I don't think you are invited though.

Question. You have told us in all your infinite wisdom why White was there. Why was Knight, TC or whoever else there? Friendly competition I guess.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

mo_bowhunter

Mine is a laminate stock, they also come with a synthetic stock, which I think is what is in Alaska... There may be 3 left in the the states SW computer systems seems lag little bit...

Doc White is still very active and he has a great supply of parts... One of his newest rifles just won the Manufacturer Trophy at the NMRLA's...

Not the best picture in the world but you get the idea...

Also here is one of my first targets from the White...

Great gun... I really do not need smokeless - I guess I feel I could always load one shell in my 308, but a lot of other people really like them.... and that is their choice..(savage)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/D77685FDFE5C47318BD076654C9BAD461.jpg

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

But then again Trip, maybe you are just mad White won. I don't know, unfortunately I am sure you will tell us. Anyway, I am done with this. Keepspreading your message Trip.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

I witnessed the competitoin. White kicked butt.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

This is one of my pair of UltraMags. I've since changed the scope to a 3x9 Burris ballistiplex, also changed to somewhat better fitting bases and Warne QD rings.

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/1874/1944550748753355859_rs.jpg

http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/1953/1212400878393181169_rs.jpg

Doc has one over on his website that is slightly used. He's pretty proud of that one but would likely deal a bitand might even make you a great deal on the rifle. http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/prod04.htm Very slow page to load so be patient. Umag is about 80% down the page. Check out his kits while you are there.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Welcome to the forum mo_bowhunter. First things first. This is going to be your FIRST muzzleloader. I have to tell ya, this is an addiction and your nose is just getting sniffly.:D So this will be only one of a few.

Considering that you are new to the sport, I might recommend that if you purchase the Savage, to use some cleanBP substitute in it, like AP or Goex Pinnacle. It burns clean and is less likely to get you in trouble as you learn how to use a muzzleloader safely. Doesn't mean that you use smokeless in it later, just learn with a powder which isn't as potent. The worst thing you could do is put 140 grains of 4815, (like some insane people on other forums do), and have a short seat or be double loaded. Just learn the routine and be safe and if you buy a Savage follow Savage's recommended loads.

Like I said, you willbuy more than one. My wife doesn't know it yet, but I have already decided on my next, (a 1/1/8" X 36" in either .58 or .62 cal, maybe a flinter). Since this is your first, you simply can't go wrong. Let your first one be the one that "feels right" after you have filteredthrough everyone'scomments and suggestions. Once purchased, shoot it and enjoy it.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Thanks again for all your guys time and information. I do reload some of my own center fire rifle loads, so I do have a nice scale and other reloading equipment ~ I am expecting to reuse some of that when putting together various loads for my ML. I am very anxious to dive into the ML side of shooting although now I sure have to schedule my time more wisely between practicing with my bow and a new ML.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

mo_bowhunter,do yourself a big favor and go ahead and buy the Savage 10ML-II. If you purchase another muzzleloader and then have the opportunity to shoot a Savage, you'll wish you had bought it first! They are fantastic shooters with 250-300 saboted bullets. It comes standard with the awesome Accutrigger. With smokeless powder, you'll have no sight obscuring smoke after the shot enabling you to keep your eyes on the game you have taken. There is no immediate need to cleanthe Savageafter shooting it as with Pyrodex/Triple Se7en, which isa bonusafter a long days hunt. You can get higher velocities with the Savagewith heavier bullets than you can with magnum charges of Pyrodex/Triple Se7en and lighter bullets. For example, a T/C Omega .50 w/ 28" barrelshooting 3 Pyrodex pellets and a T/C 200 gr. Shockwave will get you approximately 2300 fps. A Savage 10ML-II .50 w/ 24" barrel shooting 42 grs. Vihtavouri N110 and a Hornady 250 gr. SST (which is a Savage recommended load)will get you the same 2300 fps with a 50 gr. heavier bullet. The laminated stainless Savage is a great gun, nothing out there better IMO. I own one plus a stainless Omega .50. Although the Omega is a super nice gun also, if I had to choose between one, the Omega would definitely be the one to go.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Seems to me Cascade answered your question/challenge... and as always you just seem to have a way about you that is condesceding and rude to say the least... He wanted advice not put downs but you can't seem to do one without the other. Very sad...

I wouldn't hesitate (if money weren't an option) to buy any of them. But I will say what others haven't... the Savage and the White each have adjustable triggers, the Encore only with aftermarket parts. I own both the Savage and the White... as well as a Knight. The composite stocks on those Whites will probably be B&C stocks, very nice! If money was an issue I would go for the White... White Rifles the company is still operating, all be it barely, and the rifles all have a lifetime warranty and Doc White himself is a tremendous resource for advice and parts. As has been noted the UltraMag is the only rifle of the three that will shot sabots AND conicals effectively.

RE: Pro Hunter v Savage v White
 

Hey Trip........The guys is asking for opinions. He said he doesn't know much about muzzleloading. Get off your ego TRIP.