APP and Powerbelts?
 

Has anyone tried Powerbelt bullets in conjunction with APP or Jim Shockey Gold powder? I'm wondering if the slower cooler push these powder exert would allow charges to be dialed up a bit from what is normally the upper limit on these projectiles - at least in terms of accuracy.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

Roskoe.. I have a hard time getting accuracy when shooting "larger" conicals like the No Excuse or Powerbelts over 300 grain with APP 3f or Pinnacle. Lighter projectiles, and you can really do some fancy shooting but when the weight gets up there, the accuracy falls off.

Still the best powders I found for large conicals is Pyrodex P, Goex 3f, or Triple Se7en 2f & 3f (still working on my first pound of 3f but so far the results are very good). Do you think the larger conicals need that more explosive faster take off then the APP and Pinnacle might give?

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I have tried both APP and Black Mag3 with powerbelts. From 80 grains to 110. Best groups have been about 5 inches at 100 yards from a bench rest, not great in my book. I am going back to 777 and try some small rifle primers. Let you know how it turns out.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

That's what I thinking. The slow burn with low heat that works well with light sabots doesn't upset the big lead conicals enough to get a good "slug up" in the bore? Or maybe it would if a stouter charge was utilized?

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

You really need to buy a pack of Powerbelts to try inside your bore. Can't add anymore since you didn't mention the intended ML.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I have several packs of them - 348, 405, and 444 grain - so far the best accuracy has been with 2F Triple 7 - and with charges from 90 to 105 grains. Above that charge level, accuracy starts falling off in all three of my T/C guns. Some of the bullets are making a green smear going through the plywood at 100 yards - suggesting that the plastic skirt is not releasing from the stem at the back of the bullet. I remove the skirt and lube the stem. My thinking has been that the heavier charges are causing the stem to obturate and hang onto the plastic skirt.

Given that Triple 7 appears to be one of the hotter powders out there; I got to wondering what would happen with one of the cooler powders - at higher charge levels. May have to do a little testing here . . . . .

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I don't know if my information is what you are looking
for. But I shoot APP but in stick form, rem. kleenbores,
50cal Omega. I have shot the PB'S with up to 150gr.
charge, groups were all over the place. So I tried the
Hornady 300gr. XTP-Mag HP they shoot really well in
my Omega. My normal charge is 100gr. but I still get
good accuracy even at 150gr. The only ML I own that
shoots PB'S very well is my 45cal Beartooth.
Danny

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I tried APP,Gold, and Pinnacle with 250 and 300 gr in PB and Sabortooth.
The way I got the best group was with heavy loads of APPFF none of the FFFGold or Pinnacle compared the best I could do was 250 gr Sabortooth and 150 gr of FF App grouped 1.5 to 2 inch for three groups in a row[@ 100]and I can do that with Shock Waves at 150.Also I read about how they blow up and don't leave an exit hole that is a no no in my book. Lee

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I have shot 348 powerbelts over Black Mag and T7, I like the T7 a little better, 120 grains ,shot a bull elk with that load last fall. This was in an Omega.
Ken

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

Ken first off, welcome to the forum. That shooting an elk with that powerbelt must have been a thrill. How well did the 348 act on the elk? What I mean was did it fragment? Did you get good penetration? How far did the animal move after getting hit? That must have been a good stout load for the Omega... sounds like a fun time.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

My best elk load in my Omega has been 90 grains 777 over 405 grain powerbelts. Believe me, that is more than enough power for anyelk alive. At any amout over 100 grains, my gun shoots 5 inch groups at 25 yards! However, my brother's Omega shoots the 348 grain powerbelts at 110 grains 777 very well. Two identical guns that have totally different likes/dislikes. Every gun is different!

I personally start to flinch at any amount over 110 grains anyway, which adversely affects my accuracy.

I am hoping I can get my gun to shoot the No excuses 460 grains well with 777. If so, that will be what I take to Colorado this fall to chase some elk! If not, I will use 405 or 444 powerbelts.

PS: I think it is great that all you guys get great accuracy with sabots. However, you MUST use a conical in Colorado (sabots are not legal), so we are stuck with finding the right conical/powder combo

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I think you will do well with either the 460 NE or the 405 Powerbelt. The sabot loads, if they were Colorado legal in September, would be great for longer shots; but inside of 150 yards these big conicals are deadly. And probably beyond if you can gauge the drop. Last fall, I got to witness a big 6 X 6 bullharvested with a 410 gr. Hornady Great Plains at only 35 yards. It was impressive. Sometimes with lightweight high velocity projectiles you are not really sure, at least initially, if you even hit the animal. Not the case with a bullet this large. :)

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

Cayagad,The bull was 77 yards away, the shot was very easy, bullet placement was heart shot. I have the bullet and it looks like a 50cent piece, real flat and completely one piece. The bull went about 40 yards,I did not see him afterI shot. One jump and he was in the spruce. There were two bulls together and both were legal (just) I was looking at the first one when the second one stepped out. This was on public land and I was going to shoot the first legal bull (4points on a side) I saw. My nephew shot a big cow at 177 yards(same load and gun)and all we found of the bullet was the green skirt inside the elk,bullet hit the front leg and barely went into the chest cavity. We did not look for the bullet very long though.
I have shot 9 bulls with a rifle but this ML is a lot more fun. Vey few hunters to put up with. This was CO. so open sights and conicals.
Ken
Ken

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

Based on what I have seen with Powerbelts, a 177 yard shotwith one that did not shed it's skirt was a real stroke of luck. Powerbelts tend to shoot best when they shed the skirt consistently - and early in flight. The ones that hold onto the skirt past 50 yards or so are usually a flier.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

What I seen on the two elk shot with the powerbelts I would only take a broadside shot. They did kill both elk and the one at 177 yards was lazer verified. The Omega was sighted dead on at 118 Yards,6"low at 160 yards and 20" low at 200 yards. I had these ranges taped to the stock. My nephew (He is 50 years old) put the front bead on the top of the back. We had a hard time finding this elk it went about 250 yards with no blood trail, even had a little snow. There were 17 elk in the herd so tracks were pretty tough to straighten out. I would like a tougher bullet.
Ken

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

That's still some very impressive shooting for open sights. I have used a 460 grain No Excuse Conical out of my Black Diamond XR with good results. I am sure it would hold together much better then a powerbelt.



I only push them with 85 grains of Goex 3f but they really do a number on what they hit. They might be something to look into for future hunts. These are what I shoot now out of my White Ultra Mag .504 rifle.

RE: APP and Powerbelts?
 

I have a pile of 460NE I will try them They work great in the UM.
The problem with the Omega is I ran out of sight adjustment when I went over 348 grains. I need to put a lower front sight on the UM and the Omega. I ordered one for the Um but I should have ordered 2.
Cayagad don't you know you are supposed to make firewood in Winter,Then you get 3 times the heat, once when you cut it, once splitting and once for stacking.
Ken