Will PA ever change?
 

This whole in-line muzzle loader thing has really taken off. Everyone has a great in-line out there and there are many advancements in propellents and projectiles. Do you think PA will ever have a black powder season where an iron-sited flintlock is not the only legal tool? I can see that they want to make it a challenge, but now they are trying to thin the herd. Even a flintlock with a scope. There's still a chance of a misfire, but the improved accuracy may prevent a few cripplings. How many states are flint-lock only? How about patch and round ball only?

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

Pa does have a season for inline muzzleloaders. Our early season is pretty much as long as you load it by the muzzle it's legal.

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

<font face='Verdana'></font id='Verdana'>Please remeber to read the regs. The traditional iron sights are now allowed to have fiber obtic inserts. and You can use pretty much any bullet you want. Not just the roundball.


Life Member: United Bowhunters of PA, NAHC.
member: PA flintlock assoc.

Frank

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

Yes, I know now that you can use an in-line in the early season. I hate being the last to know.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

I hate to say it,but I think eventually in-lines will be legal in the regular season.I'll stick with my flinter-alot more fun!

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

KIDD642,
You better check the reg's. It says on PGC's web page that fiber optic inserts are permitted.
http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/PGC/faq/deerlaws.htm

&quot;Kill it and Grill it...and don't forget to keep your powder dry!&quot;

RE: Will PA ever change?
 

KIDD642. Sorry about that. I miss read your Post and thought you said that fiberoptic sights were not aloud. My mistake. Funny how your mind plays tricks on you.
&quot;Kill it and Grill it&quot;

14 years later and we are still flintlock only in our muzzle loader season (with the exception of the one week early doe).

That's the way a lot of us want it. But it has evolved a bit from its original regs. Initially you could only use "buckhorn" style open sights, flintlock ignition and patched round ball .44 cal or larger.
Today you can use FO sights or peep sight and any projectile (still .44 cal or larger).
If you want to use your in-line you can use it during the early ML season (anterless only) or during the regular firearms season.
If it were my choice I would have allowed the changes in sights but kept the projectile limited to the PRB.

In my view, the technology creep from iron sighted sidelocks to scope sighted inlines in the primitive season of various states was a terrible thing. It totally destroyed the intent of those seasons.

It's a shame they didn't keep the season as it started. Maybe other states would have picked up on it.

I have to laugh at Colorado.They think we have a primitive season.

I like that PA basically goes all or nothing. I wish MN did that. MN considers us primitive. By primitive you can use any powder, including smokeless, any bullet over .40 and any ignition type. The only restrictions on it are open sights. It's pretty dumb. Lets give guys 300 yard guns and expect them to trust their eyesight that can only be accurate to 50 yards. That won't wound any deer.
I wish they would do a muzzleloader early season and a muzzleloader late season. One season any muzzleloader goes, the other is only traditional.

In the case of Colorado they could keep the primitive muzzy season during the elk rut in Sept. Then have a modern muzzy season later in Oct with the rifle hunt seasons. Not at the same time, in it's own season. There's room for it.

Then the primitive season would be flintlock, real black powder, primitive sights, and a PRB. That would deserve to be in the rut season with the bow hunters. Not the way it is now.

I'd love to be on the hunt with other flintlock hunters. I'd know they were true muzzleloaders and not someone just looking for another season to hunt.

Several of the guys in my hunting club are muzzleloaders for the sole reason of being able to hunt during the special season. They check their sights once a year, hunt the special season, and then the gun goes back in the closet until next year. They are good guys exercising their rights. I certainly can't fault them for that.

They chuckle at me for hunting with a muzzleloader during the regular gun season. I chuckle along with them. Then I chuckle at the three or four who use scope sighted crossbows during the "bow" season.

We all abide by the game laws and it's all good.

Yes, it's all good, but it would be nice to hunt the old way with like minded hunters.

In a world where our rights are being restricted at every turn, it's hard for me to desire more legislation to limit our scope (no pun intended)

Just like Semi said-and like probably many of you, I haven't hunted with centerfires for years. I get funny looks and that's perfectly fine with em. Just because there isn't a special season, it doesn't mean you can't set limits on yourself and make it special.

Sorry but ive never understood that concept. I dont give a hoot what anyone uses especially people i will likely never see while im hunting.

"Like minded" is just a nice way of saying, "My way or the highway"

No, I would have said that if that's what I meant. A flintlock season is hardly my way.

What a putz.

Flintlock only: I can remember those days when I grew up near the Mason-Dixon line. I actually wish more states would have a 'primitive' style (Flint or Perc) during the peak fall colors, even for just 1 weekend - seems the idea time for those who wish to go back in time.
From what's described above, it doesn't sound unreadable to me - there are plenty opportunities to use an in-line.
One has to wonder; if In-lines keep advancing more and more to CF capabilities (some already are) - will more states go back to flint & perc only?

I dont believe there is anything to "go back to" in my state. We have special lottery hunts for firearms, all MLs and some of the best areas even offer more primitive regs. This is in addition to the normal seasons.

Our ML season is after firearms but it now includes centerfire pistols. Our bow season now includes crossbows and the archers are having a fit over it. Ohhhhh poor them, now they have to share their season with people who are not "like minded".

The hypocrisy is deafening as they hunt with their $1000+ compounds bows, tree climber stands, GPS, game cams and high tech thermal gear.

I don't believe for a second that primitive regs in many states have anything to do with hunting "old school". Its just a way to sell another tag and increase revenue but limit the success rate so they can boast about game numbers in their state.

I have to laugh at today's "necessary" gear. Fifty + years ago when I started hunting your gear consisted of your rifle, ammo, knife, drag rope, and apple & sandwich stuffed in your coat pocket and a canteen of water (sometimes).

Ya! I really fondly remember those day but today as old as I am I do not want to make any unnecessary trips in and out so I now carry a 25 lb. back pack the 'necessary things' - GOSH I wish I were young and dumb again!!!

In the '50's as a kid, we had bragging rights if we even spotted a deer in the woods!!! Never sat in a deer tree stand till I started hunting in Virginia.

I believe in a primitive season. More so as a novelty and a way of difficulty! I would love to see my state have one in the late season.

We tend to get in pi$$ing contests on equipment, like long bows vs. compound bows vs. crossbows... Flintlocks vs. perc. vs. inlines... I personally get tired of this line of feldergarb and useless arguments!! I think an open season should start and what you use to hunt with is up to you!!!!!

Remembering that this is all IMHO!!!!!

RAFSOB - I see you changed your pic. Better than the old one for sure.

Camo clothing imo is one that is way over rated. Then you have all the scent sprays,covers and special $300 jackets full of charcoal to keep your scent down.

[QUOTE=52bore;4277808]Flintlock only: ...... I actually wish more states would have a 'primitive' style (Flint or Perc) during the peak fall colors, even for just 1 weekend - seems the idea time for those who wish to go back in time.............
QUOTE]

I'd like to ask, what's keeping you or anyone else wishing "to go back in time..."? Isn't that possible right now? What would keep anyone from hunting with a flintlock now (within the hunting seasons)?

It all goes back to the "Great Divide" and "like minded"....

we do a LOT of things backwards here in PA when it comes to hunting. I'd probably get into muzzleloader hunting if they allowed inline guns in the late season. Yes, I think flintlocks are cool and fun to shoot, just can't get excited about hunting with one.

The reason PA is last to change
 

Every state is controlled by how many deer they have and how many hunters are buying licenses.
Pa has the most hunters; thus it has to control things a little tighter than other states. It has a fine system of public hunting lands, State Game lands, State forests, and a National park in the western part of the state. Most unexplored by those who would get lost. The batteries die on the gps and they aare dead meat.
Back in the 70's Pa went from one deer per hunter to one deer per season with the addition of a late season flintlock muzzleloading season. With so many hunters, Pa had to go easy.

Now its any kind of single shot muzzleloading rifle including kinds never invented before, plus the single shot bows and single shot crossbows that look more like modern military firearms.
And still hunters are looking for semi-auto firearms; a hunter needs all the advantage he can get.

That's the thing. Get the newbies and the inaccurate to a place where they too can harvest a deer. Its forbidden I guess not to harvest a deer. Besides the hefty are adding weight every year.

Change is good at times. I love my times in the woods.

You want to hunt with an in-line in PA? Go ahead. Nothing is stopping you from using one during the regular rifle season.

Not a thing at all! Everyone just wants their own longer season.

Some history on the flintlock season in PA. Two organized flintlock groups lobbied for years to get a season where they could hunt with flintlocks and dress in authentic clothing of the early days in the country. They knew it would be a hard sell so they asked for a season after all other deer seasons had closed and in the coldest most miserable time of the year to be afield. The board finally relented in the very late 70's and gave them a season on only a few gamelands in the state and no where else beginning after Christmas. The board also made it legal to take a buck or doe with the regular hunting license, or a doe with a doe tag this was back when only one deer a year was the law. Flintlock licenses had to be purchased by some time in September. Things went well for a short time until all of a sudden there was a Thompson center flintlock under almost every Christmas tree in the state and the flintlock harvest increased substantially. To counter that, the board passed a regulation that if you had a doe license you had to turn it in in order to buy a flintlock license. Next the hunt expanded to all game lands, next it expanded to state wide. In the beginning it was open sights only and only black powder, no pyrodex and patched round ball only. Eventually in the late 90's or early 2000's peep sights were allowed along with fiber optic open sights. Since the legalization of inlines the inline owners have been bellyaching that they want to hunt in the flintlock season with inlines. I hope that never happens, we have a unique season and I can't even count all the folks from other states who have told me they wish they had a flintlockock only season. I believe there have been enough concessions made and I see no reason to kick the guys who fought so hard and so long for a special season, after the herd has been picked over by archery and the regular firearms seasons and at the coldest time of the year to be outside by allowing inlines in the season. The fact is, there is in infinitesimal difference in the effectiveness between an inline and a center fire rifle. It has been over 40 years since the flintlock season started so my time line may be a little off, but not much.

In 1972, the movie Jeremiah Johnson came out, which created the most interest in muzzleloaders, specifically the Hawken. Once the states found that they could increase their revenue by selling additional licenses, it was on....

Your pretty accurate on your dates Oldtimr. I know because I had a .45 cal T/C Hawken flintlock back in 1973 right after I got out of college. I did take a couple deer with it before the primitive season started. I love hunting that season. You're right - its cold, windy, sometimes downright nasty. There are some pleasant days once in a while. I do remember one year not too long ago hunting this season in shirt sleeves.
But to complicate things even more there are fewer deer and those that remain have been harassed for about 3 months and are pretty reclusive. But on the plus side there aren't too many hunters braving the elements where I hunt.

Oldtimr:
Thanks for the info. I recall the late 70's when it started and 1 deer per year, but didn't know all of that - great learning.
It seems PA considers a firearm being all the same hunting weapon and carved out a niche for the Flintlock. That being very late in the year as to me it would be more appropriate for sometime in October when the leaves are at their peak.
Thanks

Thank you Semi, glad you feel that way.

Bronko...you're right, it's because we like it that way.

And as far as the OP's question is concerned... I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT!!

BPS

:hail: :hail: :hail:

I agree whole heartedly!!!!! Somehow the bow hunters put themselves up as the only way to archery hunt!!! And now we have the FL only group that thinks this is the only way to hunt primitive!!! I'm getting sick with all this talk. I say have one season and hunt with whatever tool you want!!! Boy, that's about the simplest way out of this problem I would think. :confused0024:

Im usually tagged out by our ML season so that means i hunt the firearms season with either a ML or SML. Its never bothered me a bit i have to share the woods with the CF hunters.

I do apply for ML only draw hunts but not for the only hunting "with like minded". I do it because its a great chance to hunt restricted conservation/refuge areas and the tag does not count against my normal tags....Plus its a cheap hunt :D

Archery Deer and Turkey: Sept. 15 through Nov. 11, 2016, and Nov. 23, 2016, through Jan. 15, 2017

In contrast our firearms season is 10 days and another 7ish for "alternative season". Firearms are allowed 1 buck PERIOD including the alternative season and we have to buy our turkey tags separately. The archery lobby has refused to give up any part of their season/s for a "true primitive method season". Not even a recurve bow season.

They love their 4 deer 2buck/2doe limit plus turkey tags as long as you hunt "their way". Plus they can get unlimited additional doe tags.

raf,

The PA late deer season is not just a flintlock season, flintlock and late archery are open at the same time. I'm not a "flintlock only" guy, but I see no reason for the state to meddle with a season that's been in place for nearly 40 years now.

BPS

I for one am sorry they ever let hunters use inlines, never should have been legal during muzzleloading season...