RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

All I can tell you is that I have observedguys knocking over steel silhouttes, with large roundballs(.54cal & up),at 200 meters, and those roundballs certainly had enough punch to penetrate the heart/lungs of a deer. I have also watched the same guys ringing a gong at 300 meters and from the sound, the movement of the gong and the dents in it, I think a roundball would stilldo considerable damage, even at that range.

[/align] I think this is a fair and accurate statement.A.54cal roundball, traveling about 2000 ft/sec, will drop about 6.5" in 100 yds, allow you to sight the rifle in so you can aim dead on out to 100 yds.Since drop increases more rapidly, past 100 yds, and since many roundballshootersuse open sights, most hunters using roundballs limit themseves to around 100 yds, maybe a bit more.

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

like roundball said, its a thrill to get a deer with roundball, i agree.but most hunters i see dont take time to practice and hunt and shoot.our brush is real thick here in pa. in mountains.its all laural. very few open shots in late season. so, i believe that most would have trouble with roundball. thats why i cant find anyone that uses a roundball in deer season, not 1. most use powerbelts, maxi -hunters, which i hate,i like MAXI-BALLS. i am going to give roundballs a try again target shooting but in deer season, its .370 gr. MAXI-BALL not those awful maxi-hunters.deadly bullet on deer up to 100 yards,easy to load,accurate and 6 dollars for 20 unlubed.take care.

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

Killed my deer this year at 180 yards with a round ball.In MT you can only use round balls and max balls.

Charles Bradford

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

I believe there is a lot of truth in what you said. A pure lead roundball might be the perfect expanding bullet, IMO. It has aboutthe largest frontal area, for bore size, that you can use, plus it is the shortest, and lightest,practical bore sized bullet you can shoot. It is also the easiest of anybullet to push out of a bore, so it can be shot at higher velocities, with less barrel pressure, than any other projectile. This means it is not too difficult to get a .50 or .54cal roundball travelling 2000 ft/sec as it leaves the muzzle.Yes, because of it's poor ballistic coefficient, it will loose about 800 ft/sec in 100 yds, but within that 100 yds, it still carries enough velocity to expand to almost twice it's original diameter, due to the soft lead composition and the large frontal area.

Large lead conicalshave the same frontal area and becausethey are heavier, are carrying more down range energy, but are moving considerably slower. If they penetrate a deer completely, which they usually do, and don't expand anymore than a roundball, which they usually don't, they punch right through the deer, carrying much of that extra energy with them.

Saboted bullets may be lighter, or heavier than a bore sized roundball for the rifle in which they are used. They may be lead or some other material. However, they do not have a frontal area which is equal to their length and must rely on other mechanical means to aid in expansion, such as hollow points. They must be designed and built in a manner that will duplicate the expansion that a roundball does naturally. Since they also carry much more energy, they have the same problem with punching clear through an animal, while still carrying much of that extra energy with them.

Just my opinions. You may, or may not agree, but in my experience using roundball for deer hunting, compared to my friends who use other projectiles, I have never seen any evidence to lead me to believe otherwise.

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

Now that's interesting...back in my percussion days I tried both the maxi-hunters and the maxi-balls on deer...the maxi-hunters were accurate,expanded very well, and were devastating on whitetails...all as advertised.

The maxi-balls seemedto betoo hard, blew right through a deer with little evidence of expansion...which I suppose theyshouldsince they're advertised for greater penetration on larger game.

I found the .45cal/255grn maxi-huntersto betack drivers inT/C 1:48" barrels but sinceI've accumulatedlarger caliber round ball rifles over the years, if I ever occasionally decide to hunt a standard rifle with a maxi, it's always just the .45cal/255grn maxi-hunter.

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

If I can draw the discussion back to the ethical issue, I agree with pglasgow that there is a difference between "ethical" and "adequate" (I made the distinction earlier between ethical and legal).
The first deer I ever shot with a roundball was a quartering away shot that entered the paunch and just clipped the edge of the lung, then lodged under the skin of the front shoulder (not a good shot). It was adequate to kill the deer, however,after I had followed it - pushing it - for over 3 hours (because I had to go to work in the afternoon). I had enough snow to follow the tracks and occasional drop of blood, and he eventually bled out. About a mile and a half later I found him lying against a tree, still alive, but unable to get up. Had I not used a finishing shot, he would have died there eventually.
Was that shot adequate to kill the deer? Yes. Was it ethical? Not in my opinion. In that case, the roundball was not to blame, but the shot placement was. It was shot from a distance of only about 30 yards, and would have been very effective and ethical with a better shot placement.
Every type of projectile and load has its limitations, as well as effective and ethical ranges and angles at which it should be employed (and where the shot should be passed up).
IMO whether ot not a projectile passes through an animal or remains inside isn't the main issue. It is how much damage is caused by the projectile after it contacts the animal to make a humane kill (aphrase that must be determined by every hunter). A small, copper jacketed bullet from a .22-250 will cause massive damage to the heart/lungs of a deer from certain distances, but will make a very small hole and kill an animal slowly at further distances. The lead roundball will kill a deer just as quickly as a well-placed .30-06 at some ranges and angles, but merely make a .50 cal hole at others, etc. There are so many variables, it is difficult to make comparisons withouttaking them all into consideration.
Oh yeah - that's what this thread is all about, isn't it?:eek:

IM jaybe :)

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

jaybe said:

If I can draw the discussion back to the ethical issue, I agree with pglasgow that there is a difference between "ethical" and "adequate" (I made the distinction earlier between ethical and legal).

There is most definitely a difference between ethical and legal. In preparing the graph, i wasn't wanting to make any connection between the two. I knew that the smallest caliber with the lightest weight bullet would have the lowest kp at 800 ft.lbs. Had I chosen a .30 calwith 180 gr bullet, the effect would have been to raise the kp value benchmark, thus reducing the ranges of the various rb's in the table. I wanted to determine some minimum kp to illustrate a maximum range for the roundball. Even so, there is an apparent failure not only in the KE litmus test, but also in the KP litmus test I attempted to devise.

The thing is, the larger the caliber, obviously there is more potential for range. So when someone says that the roundball is as good as any other projectile, only, one must get close enough and put it in the right place, without the benefit of experience, I don't know what that means. I don't think any of the roundballerswould saythe .45 is just as good as the .54 without qualifying or limiting the statement in some meaningful and useful way. Going in completely ignorant, but not for lack of asking, the table was devised not knowing what the experienced roundballer would say regarding the ranges.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

Some times I wonder if everone is shooting at the right place,I have had reasonably good blood trails some of them really heavy. A deer's heart is forward father than a lot of people seem to think, and if you hit just over the top of it there are a lot of large blood vessals, if they are with in the cone of force it will rupture them. I have been using XTP's for quite a few years with excellant results and yet it seems they do not work well for a lot of people. Why? not enough powder? too heavy a bullet? not hitting the right spot? There has to be a combineation of size and velocity to get the right results. A 535 ball of soft lead starting at 2100 or 2200 fps or a 45 cal. jackted XTP 230 gr. at 2250 fps has done the job well for me as long as I hit that spot. AlthoughI consider 175 yds marginal it has still done the job.Lee

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

wow, thats long shot with roundball, could you give caliber, twist etc on gun used. here in pa. in late season, your shots will be about 60 yards.deer dont come out in open they are in thickest you can find now after being hunted for 3 months. in this thick laural you want a bullet that will keep going if it hits alimb.a roundball will bounce off a twig.then throw in open sights and you may not see the twig like you would with scope. so, doing it for over 40 years on deer, i want a heavy bullet that will crash thru twigand if it hits bone on deer, it will keep going. no use in wounding deer at 4.30 pm before dark and i seen it happen A LOT back when we were only allowed to use ROUNDBALLS. if you are great shot and practice and shoot open sights a lot and can see good enough to place a roundball between opening in laural WITHOUT hitting twig and can see the twig, no problem with ROUNDBALL,but most dont and cant see as good with open sights.that EXTRA insurance of that MAXI-BALL .370 or POWERBELT 295/348 is a great thing in hunting whitetail deer. also, i shoot MAXI-BALL at 80grs in my .50cal hawkins 1-48 twist. it is like shooting a light caliber rifle, i dont flinch waiting for kick.now, on roundball,you should load max on powder ,say around 90 to 100 gr. of 2f for deer to get most out of that roundball.now comes the problem, KICK. i saw years ago many jerk all over trying to get use to recoil from heavy charge.many deer were wounded because of this but most were missed.some even put recoil pads on their flintlocks. thats not for me. i shoot much better if i know the recoil is going to be light and with the MAXI-BALL at 80 grs. 2f, its real nice on kick, accurate, will drop a deer in its tracks, bust brush,easy to load in field, cheap, 6 dollars for 20 unlubed .take care.

RE: Some thoughts on effective ranges for roundball
 

Just for a change of pace, I happened to jump over to the Firearms Forum, and found them talking about shooting elk at ranges approaching 1,000 yards. Quite a contrast from what we talk about here, eh?

IM jaybe :)