Shooting open sights???
 

How far will you shoot with open sights?

I know to practice shooting longer distances to see how far you can shoot, but how far would ya'll shoot with open shots.

With the way my eyes have been lately, 100 yds is probably as far as I can shoot.

Chad

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

I would like to limit my shooting to 100 yards. If the lighting and conditions were right, with the peep sight on my .58 caliber roundball rifle I might push that a little more, but EVERYTHING would have to be perfect. I normally practice only out to 100 yards. Besides that, where I hunt most my shots are 50 yards and under...

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

DukhuntChad

With open sites @ a white tail and all the conditions in my favor and the animal worth taking that type ofshot - 150 yards, at an elk and the above conditions met 175 yards.

I am using fiber optic sites and I shoot a lot so I am really confident that if all things were right,the biggest thing I worry about in that distance is x-winds.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

When I was a young man I would of taken a shot
out to around 100yds. But now my 59 year old eyes,
have limited me to around 50yds. But I do hunt
heavy cover oak woods & fence rows. I have passed
up some really nice bucks because I just don't want
to wound a deer because my eyesight will not let me
take him cleanly. Just my opnion.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

DukhuntChad asked?

How far will you shoot with open sights?

1. No further than my zero.

2 No further than 6" Diameter pattern for deer.

3.No further than 8" Diameter pattern for elk.

With buckhorns i have always felt uncomfortable over 75, though many are very accurate past that distance.

With an aperature front sight, I can hit within the 6 in pattern to 120. I can reach to 150 for the 8" (only by adjusting my zero, though). This of course possible when I am using a load which produces consistent velocities. The aperature is wonderful for my eyes, gives me much more confidence, and dramatically improves my accuracy.

With the way my eyes have been lately, 100 yds is probably as far as I can shoot.

If you can shoot within a 6 in pattern with open sights at this distance, then i would hate to be a whitetail at 101 yards.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Sabotloader: What sighting system are you using? I have a Williams rear peep and a front fiberoptic bead, which is great, but I still don't feel comfortable past about 100-120 yards.

I have been thinking about using a front crosshair (KNS hooded sight) but they are not fiberoptic and are hard to see in dim light. I love the visability that the front fiberoptic give me.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

oops, I meant rear sight

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter58

Where is your peep sight out on the barrel or on the rear of the reciever?
I really feel with a peep that site location is really important, for me the peep at the rear it offers a better site picture.

I have a v fiber optic as the rear site and but with a rampWilliams fiber front site with a open hood (so light can get into the fiber bead)on that. I installed these on a bare GM barrel that I purchased and put into a TC Hawkin stock. The front ramp with hood forms a circle around the target area or animal and the bead is in the center of that circle. I am a scope shooter so this site picture really appeals to me. Now this was a 1000 years aga, but when I was shooting 22's in competion I was also using a rear peep and a hooded front site with an inserted apeture and I really liked that also. So what I have installed really is comfortable for me.

+ plus I try to most every chance I get to shoot 150. I normally shoot 75 yards (with open sites)and follow that up with a few shots out to 150. At 150 my target is red paper plate for my wifes picnic goods or a breakable target of my choice usually a large rock in the rock pit. I try to pick a rock that is about the size of a decent whitetail. I will shoot that rock in almost any shooting conditions, but for a real animal things have really got to be right and the animal really needs to be a quality one. + it would have to be an open shot, a shot that I could see the results after the smoke cleared, I think you know what I mean - I do not want to have to guess.

The Williams I installed were not designed for an octagon barrel, they were ment to go on a round barrel but I used fiberglass to flatten the bottom and then milled the bottom flat and perpendicular.

I hope you can visually imagine what I am talking about for a site picture.

Sproulman has been really talking up this new v-peep that RMC is marketing - I think I understand his description and if I were in the market for a new site system I would really need to look at them.

Do not know if any of this helps, give a shout if I can help with better details.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Do you guys using a peep or aperature use it as a range finder? If so, could you explain your technique?

Thanks
Steve

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

sabotloader said:

have a v fiber optic as the rear site and but with a rampWilliams fiber front site with a open hood (so light can get into the fiber bead)on that. I installed these on a bare GM barrel that I purchased and put into a TC Hawkin stock. The front ramp with hood forms a circle around the target area or animal and the bead is in the center of that circle. I am a scope shooter so this site picture really appeals to me.

I took an insert for the globe sight and adapted my rear sight with it. Both for my hawkin and my NEF. They are pedersoli inserts for their front sight meant to be used in combinationwith a tang mountedaperture rear sight. But iuse the cross hair with a circle in the middle as the rear sight. The circle in the middle of the cross hairs acts as an aperture that I can center the bead of the front sight in. Because the circle in the middle of the cross-hairs is above the sighting location in the buckhorns, my zero in the lowest settinghappens to be farther than if I sighted with buckhorns in the same setting (on the ramp). So the potential for range isextended by this arrangment and it works well with bigger slower moving projectiles.

Sighting is as simple as putting the crosshairs on the target, then centering the bead of the frontsight in the circlein the middle of the cross hairs. I really like this arrangment. Now my brother doesn't like it but he is far sighted and presbiopic. Again I love it.

Happy hunting, Phil

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Sabotloader said: "but with a rampWilliams fiber front site with a open hood"

I guess that I don't understand and haven't seen this setup. Are you saying that the front sight has fiberoptics too? Is it possible to post a picture or do you have a purchase source that I could see a picture? thanks

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

I guess it would depend on what I was shooting...if I was practicing and participating in 200-300 yardmatches with appropriate sizetargets I'd shoot those distances;

If I was hunting withmy.58cal, had strong lighting,a rock solid rest, not hurried, I wouldn't hesitate to take a standing broadside deer at 150yds.

To date, the longest open sight muzzleloader shot I've ever had to take was70yds with a .54cal, complete pass through.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter58

I can do that I am headed out right now to get my Sunday morning relaxation in (trap shooting and then to the rock pit ML shooting) so as soon as I get back I will get some pictures up for you.

I looked a bit on the williams sight last night but did not find what i was looking for. I have the paper catalog which I ordered from and it shows the sight, but anyway will post later. I am trying to think of a way to kinda get a picture of the sight picture????

Thanks for the interest - are you shooting an inline?

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

I am shooting a T/C omega 50 caliber with a williams peep and a front fiberoptic bead.

My peep is mounted at the very rear of the barrel in the rear scope threads. I use the Twilight hunting peep with as big an appeture as I can get.

I am also considering putting a KNS hooded crosshair front sight on my gun. Here is a link to a discussion of what I am talking about with pictures: http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID14/1201.html

Just not sure that I would be happy with this set up at dawn and dusk.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter58

I have looked at the information you provided briefly - my iniatial thought was I do not think I would like that in the hunting situations that am normally in. I am really intriqued by the front sight but I also worry about the size and possibly the durability.

Rear mounted peep looks right to me. To gain more light you can drill the peep apeture out a little larger and/or remove the apeture altogether as if it were a ghost ring. As much as I like a peep sight - I have been unhappy with themin low light.Even when I remove the apeture and have use just sightas a ghost ring, which works real well for shotguns and hunting turkeys. I really like peeps when the ligh tis in my favor.

Now all of this can change if phisically I might see what the pictures are showing me.

I have an extra problem besides being old my vision really suffers in low light conditions. Low light for me might be plenty for you and others but for me I struggle. The fiber optic really helps me compensate.

Sooo, what I have done for me is to mount a Thompson Center adjustablerear fiber optic sight about 1" up the barrel from it's normal location. I like the TC because it has a better windage adjustment than the Williams sight. The one inch is to make up for my eyes again in the normal position they are just a bit blurry one inch further away they are solid.

The front sight is a Williams Streamlined Ramp with a Streamlined fiber optic front blade installed. There is a ton of heigth options to work with so you will need to do some home work to get the correct setup. I called Williams with some measurements they worked out the answer and sent me the set up.

I do not struggle in low light with this set up... and like I indicated before it sort of gives me a scope like picture with the open hood installed. I end up dropping the front sight on the animal - the hood provides a shooting circle - then align the sights works nifty for me.

Here is a picture of the front sight and I am sure you know what the TC rear sight is.

Hope some of this helps....

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter wrote.

I am also considering putting a KNS hooded crosshair front sight on my gun. Here is a link to a discussion of what I am talking about with pictures: http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforu...ID14/1201.html

I like it alot. They seem to be very visible. This method of rear aperture and front globe (hooded) sight with insert reticle is a old tried and true sight combination. It wasused on the old big bore cartridge rifles for popping buffalo at over 200 yds. And also used in the long range competition shooting of the day. To get an idea of how far they were shooting with them, take stock of the very longtang mounted ramp theaperturewas attached to. They really lobbed away at distance targets with this set up.

I had a hard time seeing the reticle clearly in my globe front sight but if it were brighter may be i wouldn't have. Actually, I would like to try this set up someday, maybe after you report on it.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Thanks Sabot. I downloaded their catalog, and figured that sight was the one you were talking about. This would not work with my peep becausethe peepwould not be high enough. Will have to think about that one. I have always liked the more open view that a peep gives me than the rear sight you are using. I use the twilight peep with the biggest hole they make and remove it to get a ghost ring if I need to.

Pglasgow: Still not sold on the crosshair. Wish they made it with fiberoptics, of course, then it might be too fragile to use in the field. Possibly just the concussion of shooting the rifle would break them too. I still have reserations about it because even painted white, in low light, it would be hard to see. Would show up ok in bright light and shade, but early dawn and late dusk would probably be hard even painted white. Would also have to jack up my peep 0.25 inches.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

I may have been able to shoot the KNS crosshairs front sight twenty years ago, but now I see two sets of crosshairs [8D]. For me, the green fiber optic (.038) front sight is the ticket. I use a rear peep with a 3/32 aperature and have it mounted as close to my eye as I can get it. Can shoot this combination as well as a low powered scope, and have made several shots approaching 200 yards on elk with no problem.

The other front sight you might consider is the LeVang type - which is an open aperature. The hole in the front sight substends almost 12 MOA, but it is amazing how well your eye can determine the center of the hole. You look through the rear peep, look through the front peep, and focus on the target. I shot a 1" group with one of these front sights on an AR-15 about six months ago. Still, I think the green fiber optic would be best in low light. Regards. Roskoe.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Me too. I used to practice shooting handguns at long ranges like ol' Elmer Keith used to do, by holding up some of the front sight, and "adjusting fire", like with artillery. But a good Patridge sight will let you do this, and it is hard to do with the open sights that are on most ML rifles-these obscure too much of the target area to let you observe bullet strikes so you can apply "burst on target" fire adjustment techniques.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

www.rmcsports.com.they have V-PEEP sight.enter V-PEEP in search when you get to site, i like it very much.if i am aiming at 100 yards at target, i just bury front green fiber sight in the bottom of the V-PEEP. for deer,its not necessary to do this as most shots will be 60 yds to 80 yds anyhow here in pa.so, you can use dead on aim but for target,i bury front sight in the V-PEEP.nice thing is you dont have to line up front and rear sight. when you see front sight ,you are on. i tried moving v-peep rear sight back to breech area as some said they can see better. i could not, it blurred right up but thats my eyes. v-peep goes in exact location as your original rear sight was. i am still trying to make this sight better but so far, i cant. i do have suggestion. fiber optic is real nice but i would like to see one that LIGHTS UP but is still real small in size like small fiber is. that would be a GREAT thing on front sight for us with fair eyes and darkness in morning/evening hunting.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

this is what the V peep sight looks like.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

When you use a sight such as this, do you put the bullseye on top of the front fiberoptic bead, or do you cover the bull with the bead?

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

up to 50 yards , i use dead aim,i cover the target.out to 100yards, i BURY the front fiber sight in bottom of the V-PEEP.this way i can see the target at 100. for deer, i use dead aim.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

i wish i could learn how to put pictures on here. that was great. i wish that fiber optic front sight would LIGHT UP.they could do this with a watch battery.boy, would they sell those in a heartbeat.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter58

There are a couple of schools of thought on that question...
1) 6 o'clock hold where the target sits on top of the front siight
2) modified where the bead cuts part (1/2) of the target
3) cover the target

Target shooting paper is, in my mind, one thing shooting animals is another. If you know the size of your bead you will know the moa at 100 yards - how many inches does the bead cover at a 100. Good shooters - target shooters know this. If you are shooting an official target at a given range with a given weapon the 10 ring will be a given size.

To be honest with you I am working hard to master the 6:00 when shooting at paper but in real life I can not help but fall back to a modified - I want the bullet to hit where I am looking. I am not good at judging sizes of the target at ranges so I hold on the bead on the animal where I want the bullet to hit. If he/she were wearing a bright target for me I might be able to master the 6:00. 80% of my shots are with scopes and my mind functions on the thought where the cross-hairs or bead is that's where the bullet should go. I adjust for range, if needed,by the depth the of the front sight into/or out of the V or U in my case of the rear site - but the bead stays on the POI.

I actually do not knowif this is correct but it has worked for me for seems like a 1000 years.

Hope I have not lead you down the wrong path..

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

With a peep, it is natural for me to cover the target with the front fiberoptic. This seems to work well for me out to about 80-100 yards, but beyond that it just seems to cover too much of the target. Therefore, I have been trying to set the target on top of the bead. Sort of seems like you could be more accurate as the yardage increases beyond about 80 yards, but don't know if I can get used to it.

I think I need to draw some circles of known width and put them at 50, 75, 100, and 125 and see how much my front sight really covers.

Thanks for the info

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

txhunter58

This really might be a good idea if you are going to cover.

Another thing that helps me at longer ranges is knowing what the bullet is going to do. I'm a visual learner, so I try to shoot the ranges and actually see where the bullet strikes. Anything of any range out there beyond 125, whetherit is flat, uphill, ordownhill, I know that I need to do some compensating and then knowing the average size of the body of the animal I am shooting at, whether it be a whitetail or an elk, my mind somehow tells me what to do. It was a lot less confusing when I was hunting with the 270 or the 300 win mag - with those two flat shooters all I had to do is drop the scope on the animal and pull the trigger. Now that I hunt totally with ML's I am getting better at making those calculations.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

Through the peep, my .038" green fiber optic front sight covers about 5" at 100 yards. Even at 200 yards, it's not too big for an elk. Amazing how well your eye knows where the middle of the "dot" is.

RE: Shooting open sights???
 

with the V-PEEP you can do 2 things, you can use the opening in peep at top and sight over the front fiber which will let you see target at 100 yds.this will center the sight in the peep as normal is done, you could do that. i am trying to place the front sightdown in bottom of the v-peep or as i said,BURY in bottom ,then i use the opening in v-peep to see target, so far so good. look at picture of the v-peep that cayagug put on. see top is cut out.you could sight right over it but i like BURY in bottom ,so far. still testing sight but will be able to give more as winter has set in and i am done until april. but so far, this sight is better than anything i have used so far. and its LEGAL in pa. as it is not a FULL PEEP,its a v-peep, ha. good day.