RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

doughboysigep

Those type of bullets are out there - You will need to look in the rifle bullet sections for .458 (45/70) rifle bullets - Speer makes a really good one - actually 3 as does Sierra and Hornady. Nosler makes a partition both in .451 and .458 that is a protected point (flat nose). I shoot both of these during elk season they are very accurate from my ML's and they do carry a big bump at the target.

When I get home tonight I will post a picture of these different offerings.

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

From my 50 cal Omega, I have worked up an exceptional load for elk although I have yet to try it on an Elk.

300gr Hornady SST, 115gr Black Mag'3 (was 120gr but the accuracy is not quite as good at 115)and a WIN 209 primer. I have shot a few deer with this load and am confident that this would also blister the daylights out of an Elk. I have no idea as to how fast this is moving, but it's fast and knock a deer literally off it's feet.

I have dozens of ML's and each one with exception to my ML's1:60"+ rifled barrels (of which I only shoot PRB's) I have at least two loads for each riflebut sometimes as many as five different projectile/powderloads that would be suitable for various hunting or targeting/plinkingsituations. Each one has a pet Whitetail load that is the most accurate and then a big/dangerous game load that is the most accurate.

That is one of the great things about muzzleloading is you have many choices to choose from. Plus I like to have alternative projectile and powder choices depending on availability. I don't want to end up in the scenario where I would need to buy more of a Pet load only to have a issue obtaining same powder or projectile. Then in crunch time before hunting season scrambling to figure out something that will not only shoot well but also deliver reasonable performance.

Although now that I have said that, I could always carry a rifle and load combo that I did have on hand.

I typically hunt with a different ML on each day unless I am in a remote area and then I may alternate between two different rifles unless I am on foot then I only carry one.

Tahquamenon

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

that's my favorite when I want to put a lot of lead down range from a sabot,with excellent accuracy. They are a Remington .458 diameter Flat Point. They weight 405 grains and I shoot them with 100 grains of powder. I also make/cast them in pure lead. What they hit really takes a thump.

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

mayguy wrote:

I did try one heavy bullet, 375gr. Buffalo Bullet, this is just what I think I remember about the vel.---- 110grs. BM3, about 1900fps out of my Omega.

Wow! That is right in-line with the website's claims. Almost 3000 ft-lbs at the muzzle. To be honest, I thought they were joshing. It doesn't seem so expensive now. A guy can use lesser charges and still get the velocities of their old "dirtier" substitutes, for not too much extra money. OR get the performance you just posted which isn't possible with the others.

A note of caution. I compared their 45-70 load with other loads at hodgdon's website. I was amazed to find that BM3 is producing results I though were comparable to Varget. For example, 50 grains (by weight)Varget propelled a 405 grain bullet to 1718 fps at CUP 20,900 and energy of 2630 ft-lbs. 65 grains of BM3 (by weight) propells a 435 grain bullet to 1864 fps and energy of 3325 ft-lbs. The BM3 load has 26% more energy using 30% more powder. These two powders are similar in their performance, not exact mind you, but Magkor doesn't publish pressures and Im doing the best I can here.

If i were a betting man, I would guess the BM3 45-70 load several thousand psi above the lighter Varget load. Well above 21,000 anyway. The BlackMag site suggests the powder works well in .45 and .50 caliber rifles with 400+ grain projectiles with charges of 100 to 120 grains[:o]by volume. DON'T DO THAT IN .45 CAL. UNTIL MORE IS KNOWN.

Being BM3 is of the same class of powder as pinnacle, I made a make shift calculation using hpmuzzling.com's conversion table to calculate the volume of the charge inmagkor's 45-70 load. The answer? Approximately 80 grains by Volume. The heaviest muzzleloading bullets for 45 cal. i know of are 360 grains. But if I were asked to guess the pressure of 80 grains (volume) of BM3 and a 360 grain projectile in a .45 caliber muzzleloader I would suggest over 22,000 psi. I don't know how much over. But only GODknows how high the pressure would go if one would put 120 grains of BM3 and a 360 grain conical in a .45 caliber muzzleloader.

I emailed the Magkor folks a couple of weeks ago about the excerpt below which is in their FAQ:

The above is just an example. We have found that Black Mag’3® also yields exceptional performance with powder charges from 100 to 120-grain in rifles of .45 to .50 calibers. In fact, because of its unique burning characteristics, charges in this range will yield higher velocities with heavy bullets in the 400 grain range.

I told them my concerns. I received an email saying that my concerns were being forwarded to another department and would be contacted later. I've not heard from them yet.

Just wanted to caution against high volume load in .45 cal. until more is known.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

There are 6 dead deer in this picture. I know,you can only see 5 but there are 6,the 6th one might still be in my truck when I took this picture?
3 were shot with a TC Omega 50 cal,100 grains(pellets) and 295-300 grain TC Shockwaves?(not my gun)
One was shot with a TC Renegade/Sharon 1 in 72" twistbarreled 58 cal,90 grains of fffg Goex and a patched round ball(my gun)
One was shot with a CVA Optima Pro 50 cal,100 grains Pryodex Select and 245 grain Powerbelt(my gun)
One was shot with a CVA Kentucky Rifle 45 cal, 80 grains of Pryodex and a patched round ball(I worked up
the load for this gun about 15 years ago for my main hunting partner)

They all look about the same amount of dead to me;)

The one that went the farthest after the shot was one of them shot with the 300 Shockwave(poor shot placement,wasn't me) well over 200 yards and required another shot to finish the job

The 58 dropped it in it's tracks
The Powerbelt, about 30 yards
The other 2 with the Shockwave,one went about 30 yards, the other about 50
The 45,about 25 yards


This is how my CVA Optima Pro groups the 245 Powerbelts
The 2 on the right that are just about touching each other were before I adjusted the scope a little,then BINGO
Way less than a 3" group(as was stated by someone else) at 100 yards.
If you move the last shot back over with the other two it would be about 1 1/2"-2" group at 100 yards.

I love the way they load,I love the way they shoot and I love the way they work on deer.

I actually like the 58 the best,it was my Grandpa's gun, It was given to me after he passed away back in 88
I have hunted with it,with the same load every year since 89. I have killed an average of at least 2 deer with it every year since. I love that gun!

Prior to that I used a 45 cal TC Hawken with 90 grains of FFFG Goex and a patched .445 ball
Killed deer every year with it too. My Grandpa helped me(ok, he did most of it)build it out of a kit when I was 12.

Soooo, I see all this "debate" over what bullet a little silly.(by the way,my Dad is tougher than any of your Dads:D)
I am lucky I guess but I have never lost a deer shot with any of my ML guns/loads in 25 years of hunting.


Take a look at the top picture again, can you tell which deer is the most dead?

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

I figured out the missing deer from the picture.
Here she is,

I forgot I didn't shoot her til Tuesday of that week
This is the Powerbelt one.
Looks dead to me.

I shot another one that evening with the CVA and Powerbelt,dropped it in his tracks.

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

Buellhunter,

Nice display of venison!

Were they all double-lung shot?

Another question regards to deer processing.Do you skin your deer while they are still warm? I always have and was just curious. I find that skinning is a simple and easy task when the carcass is still warm.

Great hunt!!

Tahquamenon

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

I HAVE USED THE POWERBELTS, TRIED TO FIND ONE
THAT WOULD GROUP IN MY kNIGHT 50CAL. JUST
COULD NOT FIND ONE THAT WOULD HIT A 4X4 PIECE
OF PLYWOOD AT 50YDS. YES THEY WILL LOAD EASY.
THIS PAST YEAR I TOOK A 178LB. FIVE POINT WITH
MY BEARTOOTH MAGNUM IN 45CAL. IT IS DEADLY
ACCURATE OUT TO APPROX. 100 YDS. I SHOT THIS
BUCK AT 40YDS HEAVY TIMBER, BEHIND THE SHOULDER
HE RAN FULL OUT FOR 75YDS. THEN FELL INTO A
DEEP GULLY. THE ONLY WAY I LNEW FOR SURE HE
WENT DOWN IS I HEARD HIM TUMBLING DOWN IN
THE LEAVES. GOT LUCKY AND FOUND HIM.
BEHIND THE SHOULDER THE ENTRANCE HOLE WAS
ABOUT THE SIZE OF A MARBLE COULD NOT REALLY
FIND THE EXIT. THIS BUCK RAN FOR 75YDS LEFT
NO BLOOD TRAIL, WHEN I FOUND HIM HE WAS UP
AGAINST A TREE ENTRANCE HOLE FACING UP, BUT
NO BLOOD COMING FROM THE HOLE. THIS PAST
WEEKEND I TRIED SOME 50CAL. HOLLOWPOINTS IN
MY NEW OMEGA, THEY LOADED EASY BUT THE ACCURACY
WASN'T VERY GOOD. SO I GUESS IF THE PB'S WORK
FOR YOU, AND YOU DON'T MIND THE COST, THEN
YOU PPROBABLY LIKE THEM. I AM SURE THAT THE
TC 250GR. SHOCKWAVES WILL BE MY LOAD FOR
WHITETAIL. JUST FOR INFO. I'M 59 YEARS OLD AND
STARTED HUNTING WITH MY DAD WHEN I WAS 9.
MY FIRST ML. WAS AND OLD KY. LONG RIFLE KIT
FROM DIXIE GUNWORKS. I REALLY THINK THAT WE
ALL BECOME A PART OF OUR FAVORITE ML. AND THAT
OUR FAVORITE ML IN TURN BECOMES A PART OF US.
THE BEST LOAD FOR YOUR ML. IS THAT ONE THAT
YOU HAVE SHOT MANY TIMES AT THE RANGE AND
THAT YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN. JUST MY OPNION.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE PICTURES OF ANY
DEER TAKEN WITH THE TC SHOCKWAVES.
GOOD LUCK......GOOD HUNTING.......GOD BLESS

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

here's what was left og the lungs of that doe.

RE: Another -> PowderBelt Question
 

Another one drops to a Powerbelt