Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
01-03-2006 | 07:18 PM
#11
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 206
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RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
Nice information: I used the powerbelt 225gr. aero-tip
had entrance hole & exit hole. But no blood trail but
got lucky and found him about 80 yards away. I
just got an tc omega & have heard they will shoot
the shockwaves very well going to find out this
Sat. I would also like some information on the shock
waves and what they do on whitetail deer.
had entrance hole & exit hole. But no blood trail but
got lucky and found him about 80 yards away. I
just got an tc omega & have heard they will shoot
the shockwaves very well going to find out this
Sat. I would also like some information on the shock
waves and what they do on whitetail deer.
01-03-2006 | 07:45 PM
#12
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
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From: Idaho
RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
sproulman
Do you realize with the small 250-3000 - 87 grain bullet you are producing 3100 feet per second and 1900 foot pounds of energy from the muzzle and 100 yards still has 1484 fpe.This is very effective on thin skinned whitetail. The 250/3000 was designed for deer sized game and was the first comercial cartridge to reach the 3000 fps mark. It really is a whitetail/blacktail harvesting machine. Your small 87 grain bullet is producing more speed and more energy than a lot of ML projectiles at a 100 yards.
I am not sure what you mean by a solid tip bullet, but if you are referring the the Aerotip - Nosler has proven along time ago this is a very effective design. Their Ballastic Tip design started this whole thing. The tip causes expansion to occur by being driven back into the bullet.
Nosler says:
The ballistic tip is suppose to work better than a hollow point but offer a "Ballistic Coeff." that produces great down range effectiviness.
This I totally agree with - the hydrostatic shock created by a bullet going through soft tissue is my prime goal.
I prefer the 2 hole theory but I do want that tissue damage and shockyou speak of on the way through. A one hole shot on elk can on some occasions cause you a huge problem, but a two shot with that big exit hole will get your elk down a whole lot sooner and provide a blood trail.
Do you realize with the small 250-3000 - 87 grain bullet you are producing 3100 feet per second and 1900 foot pounds of energy from the muzzle and 100 yards still has 1484 fpe.This is very effective on thin skinned whitetail. The 250/3000 was designed for deer sized game and was the first comercial cartridge to reach the 3000 fps mark. It really is a whitetail/blacktail harvesting machine. Your small 87 grain bullet is producing more speed and more energy than a lot of ML projectiles at a 100 yards.
i have not used the PB but i would pick it over the solid tip bullet everytime for deer size
Nosler says:
1. The Ballistic Tip® Hunting bullet's polycarbonate tip resists deformation in the magazine and initiates expansion upon impact.
2. Fully tapered jacket and special lead alloy core allows controlled expansion and optimum weight retention at all practical velocity levels.
3. Heavy jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushroom.
4. Ballistically engineered Solid Base® boat tail configuration combines with the streamlined polycarbonate tip for extreme long range performance.
2. Fully tapered jacket and special lead alloy core allows controlled expansion and optimum weight retention at all practical velocity levels.
3. Heavy jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushroom.
4. Ballistically engineered Solid Base® boat tail configuration combines with the streamlined polycarbonate tip for extreme long range performance.
you want shock not a hole.bigger game , i would use the solid tip where you need bone breaking but not on whitetail deer.
i seen many heavy bullets go thru deer and deer run. experts all say you want hole out both sides
01-03-2006 | 08:23 PM
#13
Joined: Aug 2005
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RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
Boy, what an informative post.
Thanks for sharing the pics. What's the saying? A picture is worth a thousand words. Yeah know, my friend has shot 3 doe with the Power Belts and hasn't had one passthru!! He drilled a small doe during the last Sat of the season for freezer meat in the ribs at 40 yards. I recall him saying that he was just using 100 gr of Pyrodex. Surprisingly, even this shot did NOT pass thru.
Yep, after doing a little research on the net reading similar stories, I concluded that I'll never shoot the PowerBelts....well, maybe at a chuck or two, but never at a deer.
Thanks for sharing the pics. What's the saying? A picture is worth a thousand words. Yeah know, my friend has shot 3 doe with the Power Belts and hasn't had one passthru!! He drilled a small doe during the last Sat of the season for freezer meat in the ribs at 40 yards. I recall him saying that he was just using 100 gr of Pyrodex. Surprisingly, even this shot did NOT pass thru.Yep, after doing a little research on the net reading similar stories, I concluded that I'll never shoot the PowerBelts....well, maybe at a chuck or two, but never at a deer.
01-06-2006 | 01:28 PM
#14
Fork Horn
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 492
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RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
This is all very interesting, indeed. Seems like PB's are something you either love or hate. I have a friend who kept telling me all season, "I think I'm going to stop using those Powerbelts - they're designed to blow up on deer." But he killed 6 deer with them this year!
I bought them because I couldn't find anything else I could get down my barrel - at least not without at least a minute of SERIOUS effort. I didn't get a chance to shoot a deer this year, so my opinion is still in the theoretical stage.
Does anyone know of a bullet/sabot combination of about the same outside dimensions of a Powerbelt? From what everyone says, they are obviously slightly smaller - but how much smaller? I guess I need to spring for one of those digital calipers to find out for myself.
Keep the information coming; it's really helpful.
IM jaybe
I bought them because I couldn't find anything else I could get down my barrel - at least not without at least a minute of SERIOUS effort. I didn't get a chance to shoot a deer this year, so my opinion is still in the theoretical stage.
Does anyone know of a bullet/sabot combination of about the same outside dimensions of a Powerbelt? From what everyone says, they are obviously slightly smaller - but how much smaller? I guess I need to spring for one of those digital calipers to find out for myself.
Keep the information coming; it's really helpful.
IM jaybe
01-06-2006 | 01:40 PM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
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From: Idaho
RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
jaybe
What gun are you shooting?
I wrote this in response to another PowerBelt question and I really believe it. There is not a valid reason to struggle to get sabots down - it is matter of getting the right bullet combination...
I am going to run a couple of experiments this weekend involving fouling and seating sabots,I only have t7 powder but a lot of the complaints are coming from the fouling incurred while shooting t7.
What gun are you shooting?
I wrote this in response to another PowerBelt question and I really believe it. There is not a valid reason to struggle to get sabots down - it is matter of getting the right bullet combination...
think is basically two reasons people choose PowerBelts, I believe you have just stated the number one reason and the second reason is because like in the states of Washington and Colorado sabots are not legal during ML season. And the next best thing that looks like a real bullet to most people is a PowerBelt.
Today - unless you are shooting a smokelss version Savage - there really isn't a good reason to stuggle to load sabots. The variety of sabots sizes and the new plastics they are using make them tougher than they have ever been. Thickness very from the Harvester "crush rib" to the regular MMP. Even loading the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th sabot combination should not be a problem if you are controlling fouling. There really isn't even a good reason to use a short starter anymore. Thumb pressure and your rod should be all you need.
I hope you find the answers you are looking for - but given a choice I would continue using sabots vs PowerBelts.
I really hope I have not muddied the waters - that was not my intention - but it really does bug me when i see someone standing on their ram rod trying to seat a bullet.
Today - unless you are shooting a smokelss version Savage - there really isn't a good reason to stuggle to load sabots. The variety of sabots sizes and the new plastics they are using make them tougher than they have ever been. Thickness very from the Harvester "crush rib" to the regular MMP. Even loading the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th sabot combination should not be a problem if you are controlling fouling. There really isn't even a good reason to use a short starter anymore. Thumb pressure and your rod should be all you need.
I hope you find the answers you are looking for - but given a choice I would continue using sabots vs PowerBelts.
I really hope I have not muddied the waters - that was not my intention - but it really does bug me when i see someone standing on their ram rod trying to seat a bullet.
01-06-2006 | 03:27 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
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RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
I kind of wondered about all these loading problems,I really don't see much differance between PB, Sabor Tooth and the Shock Waves or several other sabotsand XTP bullets in my three sabot guns as far as loading is concerned. Most of them will shoot 3 inchs or under with the right load but the shock waves shoot best in my Omega Especaly the 50/40 200gr for 200 yd group.
01-06-2006 | 07:09 PM
#18
Fork Horn
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 146
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From: southeast iowa
RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
here are some cool pics of recovered bullets i found on the web
http://www.thebuckskinner.com/deerrectest.html
the pic is of bullets recovered from a bullet box or trap.
http://www.thebuckskinner.com/deerrectest.html
the pic is of bullets recovered from a bullet box or trap.
01-08-2006 | 03:02 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,270
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From: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
Revealing pic of that Power Belt! I think a round ball would have held together better......
Now, as to this expansion business. A 50 caliber bullet does NOT have to expand to do its work. Nor do any of the larger ML bullets.
Now, as to this expansion business. A 50 caliber bullet does NOT have to expand to do its work. Nor do any of the larger ML bullets.
01-08-2006 | 03:34 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
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RE: Some recovered bullets, two shockwaves and a powerbelt
Jaybe said:
"This is all very interesting, indeed. Seems like PB's are something you either love or hate. I have a friend who kept telling me all season, "I think I'm going to stop using those Powerbelts - they're designed to blow up on deer." But he killed 6 deer with them this year! "
I actually discussed the PB blow up problem with the Powerbelt folks. First, it is really only a problem with the lighter bullets. Second, retailers and hunters alike demand them. So powerbelt is going to make as many of the light hollowpoints they care to market (to retailers) and retailers are going to sell as many of them (to hunters) as they possibly can.
My local Walmart got smart and ordered nothing but .50 295's. Thankfully, hunters made them eat them. The last I priced them on clearance they were selling for $4.00 a 16 pack. I hope no one plans to use them for Elk next year. They are legal for Elk, unfortunately.
If I may. It seems we often paint with a VERY broad paint brush here. PB's don't inherently blow up. Really they don't . Shove 3 pyrodex pellets in your gun followed by a 245 powerbelt behind it. And yes, it is going to blow up. What does one expect? Its hollow cavity is half as deep as the bullet is long. (I think it was sabotloader who called them "glorified roundballs"). We really need reason here.
Jaybe, if you like shooting powerbelts but are concerned about them holding together when you hit deer with them, as I see it, you have two choices.
1. Avoid all powerbelts and look for another suitable bullet.
2. Avoid making the mistakes others are making by overpowering underweighted hollowpoint bullets. Try reducing yourcharges and increasing the weights of the powerbelts you are shooting.I think you will be more than pleasantly surprised when you see the terminal performance of a 405 or 444 grain powerbelt.
Happy Hunting, Phil
"This is all very interesting, indeed. Seems like PB's are something you either love or hate. I have a friend who kept telling me all season, "I think I'm going to stop using those Powerbelts - they're designed to blow up on deer." But he killed 6 deer with them this year! "
I actually discussed the PB blow up problem with the Powerbelt folks. First, it is really only a problem with the lighter bullets. Second, retailers and hunters alike demand them. So powerbelt is going to make as many of the light hollowpoints they care to market (to retailers) and retailers are going to sell as many of them (to hunters) as they possibly can.
My local Walmart got smart and ordered nothing but .50 295's. Thankfully, hunters made them eat them. The last I priced them on clearance they were selling for $4.00 a 16 pack. I hope no one plans to use them for Elk next year. They are legal for Elk, unfortunately.
If I may. It seems we often paint with a VERY broad paint brush here. PB's don't inherently blow up. Really they don't . Shove 3 pyrodex pellets in your gun followed by a 245 powerbelt behind it. And yes, it is going to blow up. What does one expect? Its hollow cavity is half as deep as the bullet is long. (I think it was sabotloader who called them "glorified roundballs"). We really need reason here.
Jaybe, if you like shooting powerbelts but are concerned about them holding together when you hit deer with them, as I see it, you have two choices.
1. Avoid all powerbelts and look for another suitable bullet.
2. Avoid making the mistakes others are making by overpowering underweighted hollowpoint bullets. Try reducing yourcharges and increasing the weights of the powerbelts you are shooting.I think you will be more than pleasantly surprised when you see the terminal performance of a 405 or 444 grain powerbelt.
Happy Hunting, Phil