Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

I have been considering going BP for our firearms season. Right now I am using a 12ga slug gun, and want to get away from $3/round ammo and I want a little more reach. If I stay with a slug gun, I am going to have to drop some serious dough to get any more range, but still have high price for ammo. With my slug gun now, I will not shoot past 125 yards. These lightfield slugs work great out to that distance, but fall quickly after it. I used to own a BP rifle, but a lot has changed in the past ten years. What brands should I look for, and which ones should I steer clear of? I would like to keep rifle cost below $400 if at all possible. Should I get a .45, or a .50 caliber? I would like to be able to shoot out to 200 yards if possible. Does one caliber have a distinct advantage over the other? This rifle will be strictly used for deer hunting, nothing else. Sorry for the long post, and thanks for an info.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

That's a long reach with a muzzleloader. Sounds like you need an inline job capable of handling up to 150 gr of powder. I'm a side lock guy so I'll leave this one for the inline guys.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

For what state, what season. Regulations vary too much to give you an answer.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Well, According to the IDNR I have to use a 50 caliber muzzleloader. It says projectile must be a minimum of .44 caliber. That means the .45 is out of the question.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

I live and hunt in Illinois. Like I said, .45 is out of the question. So that leaves the .50. Can it do what I am looking for, or should I expect less?

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

you could shoot .45cal conicals........so dont say .45cal is out........i know nothing about long range or high powered muzzleloaders.......i make my smoke with a flintlock...and keep my shots close...id read about inline muzzleloaders and maybe the new savage that shoots smokeless powder....not sure how that ranks with the power and velocity???some will know alot more then us sidelock guys........but while you wait you can check out some inlines and maybe the savage if smokeless powder is legal in your state.......figure out your exact regulations so these guys can help you more.....alot of states have diffrent laws...no sabots.....no smokeless powder......traditional guns only ....scopes...sights...ect ect........good luck.......

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Thanks. We can use smokeless powder, inline rifles, sabots, scopes, and 209 primers. I'll keep reading and researching this to see if it a path I want to take.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Thompson Omega Z5 or Thompson Encore 209. These guns are safe with 3 777 pellets or 130 grains of loose powder, probably a little more.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Just because of what your allowed, you might want to condsider a Savage ML10 which can shoot smokeless powder. Also they are well known for the accuracy.

In fact Randy Wakeman I believe lives in the same State as you and is an authority on the Savage rifle. He can answer most any question you would have. As for accuracy with them it is exceptional and scoped, your range is as good as your willing (with in reason) to practice to. I have read of them making 300 yard shots with them.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Thanks for you input guys. I appreciate it. I'll look into the Thompsons, and Savages.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Although I would recommend a .50, why does a minimum of .44 rule out a .45? The .45 shoots a .445" round ball, or a .450"-.451" conical! Only a sabot would require a bullet under .440", and sabotsare NOT the only possiblebullet selection!! (IF you ever go after elk, most states would require at least a .50!)

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

I should have stated that differently. I am ONLY interested in shooting sabot rounds. I appreciate your input, even though you brought nothing new to the table.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

I own a Knight Elite Extreme and I had very good 150 yd groups(6"). Then I read an article by Randy Wakeman about the Knight Elite. Knight was discontinuing this line so I was able to get one at 1/2 price. God he was right! This thing shoots like a target rifle. Sub-2"groups at 150. I have tried numerous rounds and I have settled on the Barnes solid copper HP at 300 gr. Awesome accuracy and knock down power. If you can find one, I believe you can't go wrong!!!!!!!!! I have always owned TC rifles and shotguns and they have a great product. But every once in awhile one comes along like this Elite. Knight took a wrong turn in the road when they dropped this line,

Check out Ranky Wakeman's articles on this Black Powder Gun.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

Another option I have been looking at for smokeless is to find a used NEF or buy a new one and send off for the smokeless barrel for it that an aftermarket outfit makes. Forgot the link but should be easy to find. I think the result might be a smokeless rifle somewhat lighter than the savage without the complications a bolt adds to the cleaning and upkeep. Not to knock the Savage as it is a great rifle also; but just another option to consider. A bolt in a muzzleloader seems to me to be added length that would be better used in the barrel length (my reason for selecting the Omega when first buying). If I wanted to shoot that far I think I would be looking at smokeless and practicing a lot. Try address I just found again http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com. I am not sure how to add a link but if this does not connect type it in.

RE: Looking into BP rifle, and need help
 

As everyone else has said, the Knight is a nice ML but I was never a fan of the plastic jacket. I just thought it was one more thing to fumble with and go wrong. I have not shot a Savage but they look pretty darn nice. I have shot the Omega and I own an Encore. Both are very accurate to 150 yards. (I have not shot either at 200 yards yet.) I would not hesitate to suggest the Encore just because of the overall flexibility of this firearm. If your purchase will strictly be for muzzleloading, the price might affect your decision with the Encore.

Do you have a local range where people shoot muzzleloaders? If so, just hang out and talk to people that have different models. I have found that shooters are quite nice and the muzzleloader shooters are the best of the bunch. I always get offers to shoot ml guns that cost upwards of $2k from these guys.

Good luck with your decision.

PS - Buy the Encore!