I will be buying my first muzzleloader.
What type of action should i be looking for as far as reliability ease of use and cleaning etc.

Once i figure that out i'll choose a gun

Also, I have read articles that questions the safety if some of the CVA and traditions barrels. Any thoughts?

The easiest to clean and get at are the break open. Such as you find in the Omega, Optima, Sidekick, Revolution, Pursuit, Kodiak, Beartooth Magnum, Encoreand others. Since they break open, you can see the threads of the breech better which would mean easier to clean. Once you remove the breech plug the barrel should be easy to get at to clean.

Some of the bolt models are great rifles, but the bolt can be a devil to clean, just as the striker action. I personally do not mind the bolts or striker. They just take a little more care is all.

As for the safety issue concerning BPI barrels. Well there are cases of barrel failure in the BPI line. These include CVA, Traditions, New Frontier, Winchester and others. I think even A&H and Remington but I could be in that group, I could bewrong there. Without opening the whole can of worms, if the lack of stringent barrel pressure testing does not bother you, then buy the rifle you like. If you are concerned that some of the barrels are not fully tested to levels considered safe, since many modern loads create more pressure then the present rating of the BPI barrel, then get a Knight, White, Thompson Center, NEF, Savage, and some of the other known brands.. I own a number of the CVA and Tradition rifles. In fact I was shooting one today. 90 grains of Goex 2f and a 302 grain Buffalo Bullet Sabot.. a real sweet shooter.

I pretty much agree that the break action inlines are a little easier to clean (certainly easier than the bolt rifles). There is however a case where the sidelock (traditional style) percussion is almost as easy to clean since barrels will pop out with the barrel retention pin and then the whole thing can be set into a pail or sink of hot soapy water to clean. I find it almost as easy as dealing with my Omega which of course also has a scope that I have to be careful of. The total break action like the NEF are a little easier than the Omega although both need to be sure the firing pin holes do not get fouling into them. The Omega trigger group is a little bit of a problem to remove although it is not a big thing. If you are sensitive to the low proof stamps on the Spanish barrels you should look at something else (like NEF for instance). The low stamps are a minimum stamp which is required to ship out of Spain and not a maximum proof although some disagree with this description. I also do not see any proof pressures on my American or Italian barrels either minimum or maximum which seems to leave this whole debate up in the air somewhat. Due to the few reports of actual barrel failures on the Spanish barrels I do not load my Traditions above 80gr. (Black Powder equivalent). That means with stuff like 777 I drop below the 80gr. level by 15%. That is just how I make myself feel OK with the BPI barrel. If I see the need to shoot "magnum" loads that would be in my stainless OMEGA. You have to decide for yourself if you believe the Spanish manufacturers or the guys that seem to have some cases of actual barrel failure and what the situations were that caused the failure. The spanish guns that advertise 150gr. loading do not recommend that with 777 powder which I think is some of the situation that is confusing to many and may cause a dangerous situation. Read all the directions and do not guess that any muzzleloading powder is the same as they are not.

Thanks fellas.
Well sounds like a break open may be the way to go. So now let's talk guns.
If possible in my price range, I'd like to get a rifle without the BPI barrel. I'm not convinced they are not safe but I'd like to take as few chances as possible.

Now for a twist. I received a $250 gift certificate to Walmart as a gift to get the gun. So i'm limited to purchasing it there. Im going to have to use open sights until i can save up for a scope so it looks like this year will be an open sight hunt.

I saw a TC Black Diamond Express in Camo for $249. Comes in a kit with some cleaning products etc. But I don't think it is a break open.
I saw a TC Omega for $269 but was on lunch today and didnt have time for anyhone to show it to me so I don't know the exact model of the Omega. It was up pretty high and I couldnt see much.

Any advice would be helpful in choosing a gun

The T/C Black Diamond is not a break open rifle. It is a striker bolt rifle. The T/C Omega for $269.00 is the cheapest I have ever heard them being sold for. It might be one of the new Omega Z5 models. It it was, this is the rifle to get.

I have a Black Diamond XR and it is a great shooting rifle without a doubt. They are a little hard to clean and it takes a lot of care to get it cleaned right. The Omega would be the best one to get. Thompson Center is a great company and there is no need to worry about inferior quality of any part...

Actually the other rifles that have BPI barrels I shoot. I do not load them hot. 100 grains of Goex 2f is about all I will go in them even though they can take 150 grains of Pellets. I do not shoot pellets.

Although I am an Encore owner I will concede that a solid action like a bolt will be more accurate but that is only if it can be shot well. Same can be said of the rolling block or Omega design. If you get right down to it if you get a real well made sidelock you have an exellent action.

It is about taste and what fits you. Bolt guns are harder to clean but shoot exellent. Break action guns shoot great as well but it is obvious with them you need to spend more money to get the good ones. Guns **** the Omega shoot exellent as well but again harder to clean. Sidelocks shoot great but you can't scope them real easy but if you normally hunt with open sights they will suit you just fine.

Guns come to you, you will be looking and one will just scream out "buy me!!" that is what you want to buy. Don't buy a certain model because of only hearing a couple of people brag about one gun. Buy one that fits you and you like the action, they all have good points.

Cayugad,
Last year was my first hunting (although i'm 43) I started out by reading hours a day before ever buying a gun Then months of practice before ever hunting.
Then this April I bought a bow. Have been practicing with that non-stop

Well now I want to try the muzzleloader and have been reading a bit for the past week. I want to shoot it for a good month before ever hunting with it so I can't do as much research as I would have liked.
One thing I have noticed while reading is in this black powder forum is that you have a lot of experience with muzzleloaders and I appreciate your advice.

I really wish I could have looked at that Omega today and found out the model. I will most likely get there tomorrow andfind out . But if it is a Z5 you think that would be the best for the money huh?

Between the Black Diamond (which I own) and the Omega (which I will someday own) the Black Diamond is a pain in the you know what to clean. It takes me of all my rifles, the longest to clean. The Omega is supposed to be one of the easiest rifle to clean. I hasto be easier to clean the the Diamond.

What actually makes the Omega Z5 different from the standard Omega, I could not tell you. I have asked and all I can find is the sights are not the same quality as the standard Omega, and perhaps the stock is different. Perhaps someone else can comment on this.

It is a Thompson Center, which has the best customer service in the industry (at least one of the best). If you have a problem, they have a solution. Also the Omega is a known performer in its field. There are a lot of Omega owners on this board, and they do a lot of shooting with them.

Based on your circumstances of a Wal Mart purchase, and the fact you have concerns on the BPI barrel model rifles, this would be the best value for your dollar. This would be all the rifle you would ever need. And later if you mount a scope, you will probably hang up your centerfires like a lot of us have done.

OK, stopped there this afternoon. It is the Z5 that is $269. I'll pick one up this weekend.
I'm sure I'll have lot's of questions on what I need next. I see a whole lot of accessories but I'm not sure what is needed other than bullets, powder and cleaning items.

THIS MIGHT GIVE YOU A LITTLE HELP IN PICKING OUT WHAT YOU NEED. I PERSONALLY SUGGEST LOOSE POWDER BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO SHOOT PELLETS WITH EXCELLENT RESULTS.


Black powder rifle supplies

DECIDE ON THE KIND OF POWDER[/b]


Pyrodex
Triple Se7en
Goex
Black Mag3
American Pioneer Powder
- loose or pellet[/ul]
TOOLS NEEDED[/b]
[/b]

See through powder measure
Cleaning jag
Bore guide (not essential)
Cleaning mop
Patch worm
Bore brush
Short starter
Capper/de-capper
Loading jag for the projectile
Nipple pick
Breech plug bristle brush (for cleaning the threads)
Breech plug removal tool – socket set with long extensions works also[/ul]
CLEANING SUPPLIES[/b]

Isopropyl alcohol 91%
Car windshield washer fluid
Bore butter or lube for conical bullets
Gun Oil – Birchwood Casey Sheath, REM OIL, Breakfree CLP
Q-tip safety swabs
Cleaning Patches
Bore Solvents[/ul]

Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber
Butch’s Bore Shine
M.A.P. – Murphy’s oil soap, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide[/ol]
PROJECTILES[/b]
[/b]

Sabots for the caliber of rifle
Bullets to match sabots according to the diameter of the bullet
Conicals
Roundball and patch
Breech plug grease – CVA Slick Breech Plug and Nipple Grease[/ul]