'Morning Everyone - Had a chance to do some serious sighting in this Labor Day weekend with my TC Firehawk and TC Encore. I tried a number of different loads and bullet combinations, but at the end of the day, I wasn't very happy with the groups I was getting. Having kept the actual paper targets from years ago, I am convinced that both rifles are slowly shooting less and less accurate as time goes on.

I am very meticulous about swobbing my ML between shots and thoroughly cleaning at home with the traditional hot water and soap, brass brush, multiple patches, but have NEVER cleaned with rifle solvents like Shooter's Choice, Hoppes, Kroil, Butches Boreshine, Sweets, and the like.

Since I shoot sabots 99% of the time, I am concerned that plastic may be building up in the barrel. Do you guys use rifles cleaners in your MLs? How often? Which ones? Do you soak your barrels in rifle solvents? Thanks.

-Hunter John

I do not water clean my muzzleloader inlines so I guess the answer is every time. On my inline rifles, I use the alcohol/washer fluid combination and swab out all the fowling I can get at. After that I like to take a brass bore brush and wrap a patch around it, soak it in Butch's Bore Shine and work up a real lather (it will foam up when you use it) and really scrub the bore. After that I put back on the cleaning jag and run a couple patches of Butch's Bore Shine through the barrel, again working up a lather if possible. Usually by now the barrel is really clean. Then if you run some dry patches through the barrel, and look through it, that barrel will really sparkle. After I'm sure all the fowling is off, I run a Birchwood Casey Sheath patch through the bore and oil it good. After I clean and reassemble all the parts, I wipe the rifle down with oil and it is down.

On my sidelocks I give them a water bath. After that I runa Butch's Bore Shine patch or two down the bore. Rusty Duck Black Off is another good one. Then I like to run the bore brush down them with a patch wrapped around it. After that I run some alcohol patches and then dry patch it until the bore is dry. Then I oil the bore down with Birchwood Casey Sheath, put a cleaned nipple back on it, and wipe the rifle down good.

I shot nothing but conicals for years - until I bought a Knight and started using sabots. Had a real problem with the plastic residue. I finally stumbled on some stuff called Tetra Gun.Comes in plastic bottle. Nasty smelling stuff,but it really works wonders on the plastic. They also make the best lubes(milky colored) I've ever used - great on everthing from guns to fishing reels.

AJ52 - Thanks for the tip. Just visted the Tetra Gun website to familiarize myself with their products. Few questions: Since they don't have any product specifically targeting plastic fouling removal, I'm assuming you're referring to the Tetra Gun Copper Solvent. Right??

If this stuff removes plastic residue, why does it come in a plastic bottle?! Won't it eat the bottle? []

-Hunter John

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I got wind of this sabot solvent from ML video producer Randy Wakeman. Although sabot plastic has improved the past few years, with magnum loads of 777, one can still get a fair share of plastic fouling if your bore has a burr or two.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Company/news.aspx?newsid=33

I am very pleased with this copper cleaner below. Again, I got wind of this one from ML guru/author Toby Bridges.

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/179403

I've never tried Tetra Gun but I trust AJ's viewpoints on most-all rifle-related accessories. The man really knowsmore aboutcenterfires than anyone I've been in contact with inside websiteslike this one.

If Cayugad says Butch's Bore Shine does the job... then I would certainly trust a guy who shoots around 1000 ML roundsper year & isvery closeto owning a dozen MLs.

So now you have (4) products that will get the job done. All you have to do now is deal with the wife & kids for driving them out of the house with the smell of some of this stuff... lol

Hunter,
Yep - all their stuff comes in white plastic bottles with a blue and yellow label. Comes out of; FTI Inc,Florham Park NJ. Don't know why its so hard to come by in Delaware. Probably a marketing blitz by a competitor? Wally World has all but snuffed out the competition around here - thats another topic.

Anyway - I'm looking at the bottle as I type here - the bottle states;Tetra Gun copper solvent.

"Concentrated Copper,Lead,Powder and Plastic Remover"

The heavy smell is from(I assume) an ammonia base?? You don't want to stick your nose in the bottle for sure.

I've used Tetra Gun on 2 smoke poles belonging to friends that totally neglected their guns for 1 yr and other for 5-6 yrs respectively! I think It helped me save both guns from scrap heap!

The thing I learned, the hard way about plastic fouling was a barrel will Look Clean as a whistle. Then you have problems with loading and accuracy and then you clean some more. If you look closely with bore light you will see humps or bumps in bore - which is plastic fouling that didn't clean up on the 1st go around.

Good Luck - Smoke Polin is a Blast!

If I suspect plastic fowling or any other things such as copper, or lead, then I use a bore brush and some Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber. Strong smelling nasty stuff. But I use it every so often whether I think there is a problem or not, and have never seen a problem with any kind of build up.

cayugad, 777, & aj52 - Your suggestions and insights are much appreciated and valued. Thanks for sharing! Midsouth Shooting Supplies...here I come !!!

-Hunter John

I shoot quite a bit, and my end of the day cleaning procedure is to use a 20 guage shotgun brush (fairly tight fit) with soapy water for about a dozen strokes. Since I haven't had any long-term plastic residue related problems in any of my four in-lines, I guessthe brass brushing is getting rid of it.Don't use any solvents. Just rinse with hot water,dry the barrel, and coat with Break Free for long term storage. Seems to be working . . . .

I have used Shooter's Choice regular solvent with pretty good success, but Shooter's Choice"ML Gel" is even better for BP cleaning. But so far, nothing beats boiling water for me. I have no plastic fouling problems, because I don't use sabots. Never had any plastic problems from Power Belts......