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the 45-70 thing again

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the 45-70 thing again

Old 08-28-2005, 11:51 AM
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Default the 45-70 thing again

i never wanted to start a war of words of whether it is or should not be used in primitive weapon season. After that said can some of you guys that have used the 45-70 with modern shells tell if they are better than a inline front loader as far as accuracy ,distance or power using the same 300 gr.bullet. I don'thave a problemabout the chore of cleaning frontloaders thats just part of using a frontloader. Plus a few days after the primitive season starts i get 5 to 20 guns aweek to clean from the lazy hunters at 10 dollars each.
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

I shot an old 45/70 years ago but as I remember it had a 405 grain bullet. It was real accurate with the open sights out to 100 yards which is all we were shooting it at. It also seemed to have a good recoil to it as I remember. This was a lever rifle and I do not even remember the make of the thing but it was a nice short rifle.

The owner of the rifle was going on a moose hunt with it. He was told by the person who was going to guide him to be able to shoot out to 100 yards but better yet, be able to take quick fast shots at close range.. seems they were going into some thick stuff. And he did end up shooting a small bull at close range as I remember.

Whether it has more power then a front loader, well I really could not say as I am not into that ballistic stuff all that much, but I am trying to learn. I do know if you take a muzzleloader with a moderate charge and a good sized projectile, they will normally shoot right through most deer with little problem. They also usually knock them down real quick.
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

Never have ran a jacketed bullet through mine. Couldn't tell you a thing about them...some folks say they're real deer droppers though. Accuracy and distance...that's gonna be up to you and your rifle. You'd be better off keeping your shots under a couple hundred yards for game. What rifle are you interested in? Some of them with a good front andrear sight can really reach out there. But that comes with alot of shooting time.
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

I really don't think the .45-70 is superior to a .50 in-line loaded with todays sabot/pellet charges. Factory .45-70 is not quite as powerful as .50 MZ projectiles loaded with the traditional 100 grains of black powder. In fact, the "70" in .45-70 indicated a 70 gr. (by volume) charge of black powder. In a few modern guns, like the Ruger #1 and the Marlin 1895, the .45-70 can be loaded upto slightly above the power level of the modern 3 pellets/sabot loads used in modern muzzleloaders. I think its about a wash if you compare with the Savage 110 MLII using maximum charges of smokeless.

This could be debated at great length; but generally speaking all the .45-70 offers is a much quicker second shot, IMO.
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Old 08-28-2005, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

well my buddys are kick'en around trying to make up there mind as to get one,cause they an't much time left to get ready with it. I was thinking my knight mk 85 with a 300 gr or bigger or smaller bullet with #120 to#130 gr, of 777 is mighty powerfull i shot a #300 pound hog in the heart (thats in the arm pit) and the bullet never new it hit anything,made a perfect 45 cal all the way through,it hit ribs on both sides. When the bullet hit it charged another hog that was close tried to run it over but feel to the ground .I loaded another round in it an got a second shot before they scattered. I hit it in the neck it never made another move. The first shot was right at 70 yards the second was about 110 to 130 yards .My gun is set dead on at 80 yards I aimed a little over his back toward his head .The bullet went all the way through. I'm sure the 45-70 would do the job once you learned the fall of the bullet, but at the price of shooting one i will stick with my mk. might even get to get some good deals on some tradeins.
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Old 08-28-2005, 05:04 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

This linkdisplays the balistics for the two Winchester .45-70 loads that are available.

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/comparerifle.aspx?multiadd=U1BHNDU3MC0xLTErQUVBLVg 0NTcwSC0xLTE=&action=3&ctype=1&atype=1
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

I doubt if you can buy any ammuntion loaded this stiff, but in certain .45-70 rifles (Marlin and Ruger #1/3) you can handload a 300 grain bullet to around 2100 fps safely. The 150 grain pyrodex pellet loads are going about 1950 or so with this bullet weight in the muzzloaders - so they are pretty close for performance.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:06 AM
  #8  
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

The 45/70 was the 300 winmag of its day , a long shooting dead accurate gun . Of coarse thats compared to the arms of the times when it came out .A lot of those old guns were very accurate , well made.They had some long barrels allso
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Old 08-29-2005, 03:20 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

The 45-70 round as been around for a long time so when ammo makers are manufacturing ammo they have to keep in mind there are a lot of old rifles that can not stand the higher moderninternal pressures. If you are buying a factory made cartridge the balistics will be fairly cool and you will not be pushing much speed. We have handloaded shells for a newer 45-70 and we where getting substantially greater velocity then factory. This is the BIG down fall with the 45-70 cartridge in my mind.

Having said all of this there is no comparison between a .50 cal and a newer 45-70 but a newer .50 cal would (depending on bullet size and powder) be pushing it close to what an old 45-70 is capable of.

It is hard to compare apples and oranges. As for accuracy it all depends on the rifle and the load. with all things being equal you will have great accuracy with both firearms (much more accurate then the shooter is capable of in my case).[:@]

Eric
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:37 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: the 45-70 thing again

ORIGINAL: little-d

i never wanted to start a war of words of whether it is or should not be used in primitive weapon season. After that said can some of you guys that have used the 45-70 with modern shells tell if they are better than a inline front loader as far as accuracy ,distance or power using the same 300 gr.bullet. I don'thave a problemabout the chore of cleaning frontloaders thats just part of using a frontloader. Plus a few days after the primitive season starts i get 5 to 20 guns aweek to clean from the lazy hunters at 10 dollars each.
I have one load for my .50 ML that fires a 370-grain Maxiball at 1750 FPS at the muzzle - I assume that this is every bit as powerful as mostfactory .45/70 300-grain loads out to 100 yards, and is slightly more accurate than most .45/70's I've seen fired at 100 yards. But beyond 100, the .45/70 takes over, as a Maxiball loses velocity very fast......

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