Blue Moose CO

I'm going to hunt elk this year with my.54 cal Hawkens. I was wondering, what kills an elk... the punch or the penetration of the bullet?

From my experience with archery, penetration is everything. Since I am shooting a sidelock, I know I don't have the power like an inline-ML does. So, should I use a good penetrating bullet or a bullet with alot of punchto it?

I am leaning to the penetration bullet with the thinking that ifI can get that .54 cal bullet to the backside of an elk, thats all the damage that I need to killhim.

I know that a hollow point will cause more damage, if it penetrates enough But, I've had some bad experiences with hollow points in the past (handguns). I just don't trust them to penetrate enough, especially if it hits bone.

Whats the advantages and disadvantages?

Any thoughts or opinions would be great.

Thanks!

Blue Moose CO

RedAllison

I can't believe ANYONE that would put punch over penetration, especially for elk. Elk aren't extremely large but they are tough and have the jittery nervous system of a whore in church! A small hole through the lungs/heart will kill them dead, a LARGE hole through the same spot will kill quicker. "Big gun knockdown" is a mis-nomer at best. Sure a 460 Wby will drop a bull in his tracks when busted through the shoulders at 50 steps. But is it shock of the big slug or the damage that big dude does too everything as it bores through the animal?

If knockdown was all that is required then rapid expansion bullets would be usedfor large, dangerous game like elephants and buffs. But vitals are needed to be taken out and that requires penetration. Now the combination of power AND penetration is a doubly whammy that is an unbeatable combination. Hyper velocity and quality bullet construction offer a tagteam that is tops in the field. But in the end its the taking out the pumpers that is what brings the animals life too an end.

Good luck,
RA

cayugad

Blue Moose personally you already have punch just by shooting a .54 caliber projectile. Think in terms of a .530 roundball and its size. Name one 30 caliber modern projectile that even expanded would do better then .530 diameter roundball weighing 230 grains, and that's taking for granted the roundball never expanded any. The modern projectile would have to almost double its size and still retain its mass weight...

WhatI am getting at is, you're already knocking over a half inch diameter hole through the vital organs. So get something that will do a lot of internal damage but still be a large caliber. A roundball for instance will do considerable damage to game. The beauty of them is they do penetrate excellent and they flatten when they hit solid structures, and they can tear and tumble. Most Hawkin rifles are very accurate with roundball. Roundball are deadly.

I am guessing you're not using a scope so you will limit your shots to 100 yards or close to that. Any .54 caliber projectile should do the job. Roundball, maxiball, maxihunter, all of them are going to plow a great big hole through vital organs if you place that right. If it expands that's an added bonus. With that twist I would not even consider modern projectiles. I'd shoot a roundball or maxiball. Which ever of the two you can shoot the most consistant groups at 100 yard with in hunting situations. And I am sure there are those that will disagree.

Leave the modern projectiles to the modern rifles. That Hawkins killed more elk, moose, bear, deer and anything else that got in the way, many years ago shooting roundball or large conicalsthen any of these modern rifles ever dreamed of doing with their hollow points or aero tips....

When I take my elk hunt, I plan on using a .58 caliber Renegade with a 1-70 twist shooting a 284 grain roundball on top of 100 grains of Goex or a Lyman Trade Rifle flintlock in .54 caliber shooting a .530 roundball on top of 90 grains of Goex 2f. I will just make sure to get within 100 yards or I will pass the shot up...

Good luck on your elk hunt it sounds exciting and you sound excited about it.....

Roskoe

Having killed a few elk and seen quite a few more harvested, I would have to make the distinction of whether you are a lung shooter or a bone breaker.

When it comes to lung shots, you want a bullet that winds up just under the hide on the off side and makes a maximum size hole through the chest. The Barnes Expander MZ does this better than any other MZ projectile that I am aware of, when it comes to elk. I have seen three elk shot in the lungs with this bullet. None could take even a single step. The Buffalo bullets (lead conical) and Maxi-hunters are also very good for this application. Lead round balls are similar, just run out of gasquicker due to their poor ballistic shape.

Maxi-balls are great for breaking both shouldersor taking shots at steep angles to reach the vitals. Can almost penetrate an elk end-for-end. They have a bad reputation for letting an elk run off when shot through the ribs, though. They are going to die, but usually are going to cover some ground first. Maybe as much as 1/4 mile. I don't use or recommend them, but those who do are generally folks who want to disable the animal on the spot by shooting for big bones.

Caygad - I would have bet money that you would be packing some 460 gr. .50 caliber No Excuses bullets in elk camp. The roundball is somewhat limiting in terms of effective range . . . .

BS

My buddy uses a 54 Renage with round balls. 1-48 twist and it likes 120fff better tah 120ff. He is a bow hunter at heart and gets close and aims for the 'middle of the middle' as he calls it. Just behind the leg and just above the heart. At 50 yards it will completely pass thru an elk. No big bones only lung and ribs.

I like bigger bullets, big lead ones.

Get close and whack em hard!

Roskoe

Amen, BS. There are few things as chillingly impressive as a big bullet impactinga big animal at close range.

cayugad

Actually when I hunt elk I want the first one to be rather Traditional in nature. Even though the 460 grain No Excuses shoot great, I think it would be more of a challenge with the flintlock or the .58 caliber and roundball. Also, I have a lot of faith in the roundball as a projectile. Actually if I were going to go with more conventional projectiles I might use the 250 grain Barnes Expanders. They shoot excellent, could be used for very long distance shooting and I still think you would get great internal damage.

I do think many people underestimate the roundball as a projectile. I have shot a lot of deer with them and very few ever run anywhere. Granted a deer is no where as tuff as an elk to bring down. But if that roundball was put in the right place, I think the interenal damage would be massive.

The only elk I ever hunted was with a Ruger M77 shooting a 7mm Mag. Needless to say I had a little more range with that.

BS

Hopefully my next elk will fall to my 73cal round ball. 550 grains moving 1400fps.

Get close and wack em hard!

Roskoe

Cayugad - I will have to admit that my confidence in the roundball is not very high. When I first started MZ hunting, a sage old game warden told me that roundballs were OK for deer and antelope, but that they wounded a lot of elk. He recommended big lead conicals for elk and black bear. I'm sure the roundball, particularly a very large one like you are considering, will do the job at close range. Particularly if you are hunting them during the rut when calling is the modus operandus. Later in the fall I would get out the in-line with the Barnes Expanders - and be prepared to shoot out to 200 yards.

NVMIKE

punch or penatration...????[&:]YES