my son told me he wants to start shooting my black powder rifle. He wants to shoot my .50 cal Hawken. My question is can I give it a light enough charge for an 8 year old 80 pound kid to shoot? He will start off the bench of couse. But He's a bit timid. He does shoot the keck out of his .22 though.

That is the beauty of the black powder rifles. They can be down loaded for just this kind of event. Our group often times brought the kids up to the cabin where we shot black powder rifles, told lies, rode ATV's and had a cookout. Since the kinds wanted to shoot we would load the Hawkins and Renegades down to 50 grains of powder and a patched roundball. Because of the weight of the rifle, recoil is next to nothing. We had some pretty young boys shooting our rifles and they are now all hooked. We'd set them in a chair and bench rest the rifle off the front rail of the cabin and let them shoot...

Load the rifle with 50 grains and a patched roundball and try it yourself. You will see there is little recoil and the accuracy of that load will surprise you. These rifles loaded light make a great small game rifle if your a good shot, and the young people really like all the smoke and noise.

We always held the rifle out in our hands and showed the timid ones we could pull the trigger making the gun fire and that there was no recoil. After they saw that the only hard part was getting in line to shoot with them. The best part is after they have shot a few rounds off you can mention that the load they just shot was strong enough to take a deer at moderate ranges... That always makes them smile..

I did the same thing with my son when he was 9. Tried 30 grains of Pyrodex "P" behind a .45 roundball - no problem. Went up to 50 grains. Still OK, but did not want to go higher. This year, he turned 12. Still only 110 pounds. I'm going to try a .50 348 grain Powerbelt with 75 grain of T7 FFF. If he can handle it, we are going elk hunting.

Awsome! That's just what I was hoping. I knew you guys on here would have the answer.

It will probly be a few weeks before I can take him out but when I do I'll let you all know how it goes.

I might make a suggestion to try about 80 to 90 grains of Black Mag'3 instead of the 777 as the velocity will be higher and the recoil softer if you have a rifle with a barrel over 24 inches. Even at 24 the velocity will be equal and the recoil softer. I killed an elk with a through chest shot using 90gr. BM3 and a 300gr. Hornady SST in my stainless Omega. I have one reply that says with short barrels the above does not apply although everyone else is seeing the same results I got. This is for the hunting post from Roskoe not the soft target one (sorry I forgot to specify).

Yep... 777 boasts the most felt recoil. American Pioneer FFF or Pyrodex RS FF are two other lower recoil, lower cost alternatives.

Someday I hope to get my hands on some Black Mag 3. If it wasn't for the Hazmat charge, I would have some now . . .

It has been my experience, with the Powerbelt bullets, that there is certain window of pressure where they work the best. Too little and bullet doesn't upset enough to fill the grooves. Too much, and the stem at the base of the bullet deforms enough to give inconsistent release of the skirt - and accuracy suffers. (This is my theory and not offered as a scientific fact).

With Pyrodex RS, accuracy for me started falling off below 90 grains. That's why I tried the T7 FFFg. Got down to 75 grains before the groups opened up. And I think the recoil of this load is a little less than 90 grains of Pyrodex.

Still I wonder about the Black Mag 3 . . . . .

The 90gr. BM3 load behind a 300gr. Hornady SST bullet is enough for elk and the recoil is where I think your son can handle it. I am only 150lbs and I do not like heavy recoil. I shoot a 7X57 for elk instead of my 30-06 just because I don't like the 06 recoil and my old military 7X57 mauser rifle actually outshoots my 06. Unless you run into a really big bull the 300gr. bullet will do the job if you put it in the right place. It also shoots the 295 Powerbelt at almost the same point of impact so it makes a good follow-up bullet as it loads a lot easier than the SST. I sure wish Magkor would get on the ball and get their distribution going.

Would that work (the 50 grain thing) with Pyrodex pellets (1 50-grain)? Could you use a sabot with it instead of a patch and round ball? If not why? (Not being a jerk, just trying to understand.)

If your talking shooting a 50 grain pellet and sabot combination out of an inline it would work fine. What kind of accuracy you will have might vary, but some sabots I shoot at 85 grains and there really is not all that much recoil.

Pellets from a sidelock on the other hand might cause you some troubles. Ignition of the pellet might be a problem. Musket caps might set them off, but the big thing with sidelocks is the direction of the flame out of the fire channel in relation to the pellet. The pellet is meant to ignite from the bottom of the pellet where the sidelocks often times throw their flame to the side of the charge.