RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

Gotlost,
:D:D:D:D:D That's funny. On some of our adventures/mis-adventures I have felt like "Tim The Toolman Taylor" ---- things don't always go "just right" (I'll leave tracking wounded elk out of it, for now) --- like the time the propane stove flue pipes got bent in transport, or a fully loaded pannier of spike camp equipment rolled off of a horse right in the thickest timber with the narrowest trail. Yep, thanks for the Tim The Toolman compliment cause when that kind of $h!t happens, a bit of humor helps get it fixed and get everyone on their way. (I can't remember the last time I had ANY fun or light moments tracking a wounded elk though --- it's a job kinda like killing rats.)

I do kinda have a soft spot in my heart for ole Tim though. I could see him showing up in camp with his favorite tool of choice --- the 5 pound sledge. "Here Tim, that is a bit "short range" for rifle elk season.... you can use the camp rifle --- a nice little 30-06 with 180 Partitions --- the only rule is you have to hunt by yourself and don't load it until we're gone. [I'll take my personal backup rifle and hang it here in camp.]

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

EKM All dissputs should end this way, With humor, By the way I'm working up some loads for a caribou hunt in brown bear country AK. and yes its in my 375 H&H. I went to loveland yesterday and picked up some nosler accubonds any pro's or con's?

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

Well if he isn't "The Toolman" he is for sure a tool.

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

I am not trying to stirr the pot anymore, but I understand where EKM is comming from. I believe his up most concern is for the elk. He has seen with his own eyes too many hunters wound elk, shooting marginal elk rifles loaded with deer bullets. An good example of this is my dad, he is mostly a mulie deer hunter, but he does hunt elk from time to time. My father assumed and still does that because he is shooting a 7mm Rem then an elk will just tip over no matter what bullet comes out the barrel. He killed his first bull elk (5x5 bull) in 1976 only 4 years after he moved here to Idaho from nothern Cal. I was only 2 years old at the time, and that is honestly my first memory of anything in my life. I remember seeing the elk loaded into the back of his truck come into camp. I was at ahh and amazed, I caught the elk bug then and their and its never left me. Anyway my dad shot that bull with my mothers 30-06, his 7mm which was only a year old at the time was jammed because he was shooting a friends reload. My dad had to shoot that bull 5 times with the 06 before it went down, he was so excited that he also missed it 6 times. I think he was shooting 150 grain corelocks and not a single one passed through the elk. The bull was only 80 yards away and was crossing a backcountry Idaho logging road in central Idaho that my father was traveling on. It would be almost another 10 years before my dad killed a elk again. His next elk was a cow that he did kill with his 7mm, that cow took 3 shots and he didn't miss that time but only a single bullet went through. He shooting and still does today, [:@]cheap 150 grain bullest.[:@] In 1985 my dad invited an older man (Bruse) to come deer hunting with us, he became like a second grandpa to me. Bruse was a gun nut, collector and seller at gun shows and had many guns numbering in the 100;s. EKM you would have like him. Bruse came deer hunting with us every year until his death in 1992. Anyway Bruse tired to set my dad strait (like I still do) and teach him about elk rifles and bullet. His favorite elk rifle was the .375 H&H and a fast .300 was a close second. He only shot Nosler Partitions at elk in what ever rifle he was using for the year, or day. Because of him I learned to shoot big rifles and handle recoil. My dad bought me, (to Bruses dissaproval) a .270 for my 12 birthday. I can still remember them arguing over the camp fire about a .270 for elk, when I was suppose to be sleeping. My dad was saying that if .270 could kill a big muile buck it could surly kill and elk. Hmm sounds familure doesn't it. I did kill my first elk with that gun a spike bull, and I was standing besides Bruse not my father. I used that gun and at 14 I bought with Bruse's advice, a .300 WBY. My father thought I was crazy, but then again he thought I was crazy for taking up bowhunting the following year. As time has passed my father seeing my succes with my bow no longer thinks I am crazy. But he does tell me that if I can kill a 6x6 bull elk with my bow that he can kill it with 7mm shooing 150 grain corelocks. [:@] Last year when I bought my .300 RUM he tried to talk me out of it. Telling me why do you want such a big gun when for the last 12 years you have bowhunted and most of those years you have killed elk with your bow. My dad just doesn't get it and trust me I have tired. He doesn't reload and I have offered to reload for him, but he always wants the cheapes bullets he can find. Even last year he tired to find remingotn corelock bullet to reload here in town. Luckly he has not lost an elk yet, he keeps shooting until they are down and he is a good shot when they are on the run so that helps. But then again he has not killed many elk overall he only goes elk hunting when he draws a elk tag in his deer hunting area which is about one every three years. That way he can still hunt deer in his favorite area as well. I think I have killed more with my bow than he has all together. My point to all of this a lot of hunters are like my father, and EKM knows the type and is just trying to help them, and the elk out. I agree dead is dead, but if I have to track it to where it died I better have my bow in hand not my rifle!

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

I've seen and guided many hunters who have wounded elk (and other animals) with .30-06, .300, .338. It's not like you touch them and they will instantly be anchored. It's more important that you make a good shot rather than toting around the biggest gun you can shoot. Alot of those guys can't shoot consistently with guns that large...they just aren't for everyone. Given a choice in a perfect world of what caliber to give someone I would say .300 but there are other numerous variables for what is the best caliber for a given person/situation. Alot of people seem to try to piegonhole this argument and say "This is the best..period." Well it's not that simple and your not an authority on anything except punching keys so don't expect anyone to take your word for it.

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

BrutalAttack, I not sure who you are refering to but no one has said they are the authority. I am just trying to help others understand where EKM is comming from.

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

idahoelkinstructor,

Fun story about your dad and Bruse. Thanks for sharing.
Even with such a great story.... you can see the emotion the subject generates.

Personally I don't advocate a single caliber.... I simply advocate 30-06 power and up with premium bullets for use on elk.... for sure not too hard to come by (the 30-06 only liberated Europe twice!) and for sure not much for recoil.

Bigger Tools For Bigger Jobs.
[But no, of course not.]

RE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

ELKampMaster

Great post. Thanks for telling it like it is.

Ant

RE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

Other "270 Details" That Just Kinda Don’t Quite Add Up….

If the 270 is so great for elk, the best thing since sliced bread, all you ever ever need providing you know how to shoot, then a few things just don’t add up at all:

** Why Do The he “devout 270'ers” turn around and buy….. MAGNUMS?” We’ve had die hard 270 fans here announce all of a sudden that they are getting a new rifle. Hurray! What is it going to be? The response is usually either a “300WinMag” or a “300WSM.” What are you going to use it for? “Elk, …. well plus I just wanted one.” ---- “Hey, now wait a minute, given your tenacious, emotional, almost evangelical promotion of the 270 for elk and the fact you considered the 270 was the “end all caliber” --- What’s with that?. “Hey, I can get one if I want!” Now you’re going to use the 270 for elk right? No. Cool, then welcome to the “dark side.” True enough, but go figure!

** Ratchet Factor: Why, Why Why Do The "Magnum Fans" NOT Want To Go Back To The Good Old Days, Yet They Own 270's? We’ve had many folks discuss how the 270 was their “go to” gun but as the years passed, they either gradually or just recently increased their firepower and now all they want is their “magnum” and wouldn’t think of going back. The “heavy ones” are the ones that make the elk trip out west, sometimes the 270 goes along as a back up rifle. “I could use the 270 in a pinch but I just like the way the 338 lays the whack on them!” These folks are impartial --- they have the choice what they take afield. They could go up the scale, or they could go down it and they resoundingly favor the heavy end. Surely if the 270’s were so great and the “magnums” so bad, then there would be more (some? any?) first hand accounts of reversals that were NOT health driven.

** The Bias Factor: "As Time Goes On, Some Folks Just Can’t Handle "Magnums" Anymore!" Often seniors are the most devout 270 fans (promote them for ANYTHING!). On the other hand, "magnums" are nothing new and so there are some seniors out there that HAVE a wide background with the full range of calibers and now favor the “milder cartridges”. Interesting how the body can force the mind…. “Back in the days when I had “magnumitis” (before my health problems forced me to back off) I used to be crazy just like you guys are now and really liked them a lot, but you know as the years have went by I’ve found I can do everything I need to do with the old 270 (or whatever).

So, in looking back, does one “do as much” and “push the envelope as much” and “have the need” now as much as one may have “back then”? AND REALLY.... Which came first? (1) The realization that one had so called "magnumitis" (which you were apparently enjoying pretty well at the time). OR… (2) The change in health that mandated the use of low impact rifles and a retreat from the larger/more powerful calibers. ALSO ALONG THE WAY, the subsequent use of low impact hunting techniques, an increased reliance on knowledge, skill, and experience. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE OKAY and normal and are issues we will all face one day. The relevant question is, "Does going through such a 'passage' taint one's CURRENT recommendation for an elk rifle, in present day?"
=================

Overall, my observation is when it comes to elk, the folks that have the "magnums" don’t want to given them up until they absolutely have to and wouldn’t think of going back unless forced to! I'm thinking there are pretty good reasons why!

RE: REFERENCE: 270’s, 270’s, 270’s…. I Think I’m Gonna Puke!
 

EKM,

Nowadays, there is no excuse for a guy not using "enough gun" or, even better, "the RIGHT gun".

People talk about how "a magnum doesn't help if the guy can't shoot it" implying that the recoil is so severe that guy can't shoot them.

This isn't 1989, when I owned one of Forbes' ULAs in 338 WM (weighed 6.25 lbs scoped), it utterly kicked the ever living cr@p out of anyone that shot it. You'd watch someone shoot it and your shoulder would hurt.

This is 2005, there is this thing called a MUZZLE brake.

While I am not a big fan of brakes, I do have several rifles with them from a 22 WSSM to 30-378 Wby to a 510 Wells Express (a necked up 460 Wby w/ 600 gr solids), they definitely have their place.

One of those places is when a hunter is unable to handle the recoil generated by the appropriate rifle for the game he is hunting. (Another is this... My bull barrelled 22 WSSM has a varmint brake on it, side ports only as to not kick up dirt or disrupt the scope picture, so I can watch the red mist through the scope.)

If a guy has trouble shooting a 300 Mag or a 338 Mag because of the recoil, instead of going down to a softer shooter, he should slap a well designed muzzle brake onto it.

Case in point, I was working up a new load for my lightweight model 70 based custom rifle in 358 Norma. With full house loads, I can get that 250 grain bullet into the low 2800s. A friend, who plans on building one for an Alaskan Moose hunt, shot it offhand and rather bluntly said "looks like I am putting a brake on mine!".

Now this is a guy that has other rifles but he doesn't want to sacrifice power... He'll have no problem shooting it accurately either...

SA

PS. There are other options as well like a heavier rifle, a very good pad and/or mercury reducers.