Often the crop damage from one troop of baboons is enough to ruin a farmer for a season. Why wouldn't you help him sustain his livelyhood. I don't know about you but the only people I know that put animals before people are PETA wacko's.

RandyA- You beat me to the punch on the meat issue. And yes, MBRF, they really do use the meat.

I really find it quite discouraging to have you guys ganging up one me! Just like you would like for people to be open to your ideas, I would appreciate the same in return. First of all, in my first posting, I did say that I was not familiar with African hunting and that my perspective was based only on what I have seen in magazines, none of which described the things that you have. I am glad to hear that the meat is used for food security in the country. This means that the animal is being used not only for its beauy-hides, tusks, etc, but also benefitting the people that live in the area. I am open to new perspectives and appreciated learning about the use of the animals meat. However, I find it very unfortunate that people like the both of you, are so stuck in your mindsets that you cannot see anything from others perspectives. You have judged and slandered(Wacko)just because I was open enough to voice my thoughts, in hopes that I might learn more about African hunting. Well I have learned more alright! Some people are narrow minded and can't see past themselves!!!!!

MBRF

Those guys werent ganging up on you. You said that you didnt see a reason to shoot them, and he replied with one. And i dont know about you but i heard that africans are very poor, so they need all the food they can get and if a whole season of crops are destroyed then there ruined. And if these guys wouldnt have posted that then some people reading it could think african hunters are horrible.

MBRF- I think that you are the one who is being narrow minded. Just because you don't agree with a type of hunting doesn't mean it is wrong. Ive never been to Africa, but I understand that population growth and ranching have decreased the numbers of natural predators, so it's just like here where the only consistant way to control animal #s is through hunting. I know this is the oldest argument in the book, but it is the truth. If hunters didn't kill those baboons who would. I think the reason you were getting "ganged up on" was because your opinion was so grossly uneducated, you basically said so yourself. Maybe if you didn't know the details, you should have asked a question instead of spouting such an uninformed opinion.

DONT CALL ME UNEDUCATED, THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT "THINK" THEY KNOW IT ALL, PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS TO BE MORE EDUCATED DONT YOU THINK, OR AM I WRONG, AFTER READING WHAT YOU GUYS WRITE I NOW KNOW MORE. I AM NOT UNEDUCATED, I CONSIDER MYSELF QUITE KNOWLEDGABLE, BUT NOT ON ALL SUBJECTS. I MAYBE NAORROWMINDED, BUT ONLY UNTIL I KNOW MORE FACTS OK. I AM ALWAYS ONPEN TO THINGS. DONT GO AND START CALLING PEOPLE DOWN ABOUT HOW SMART THEY ARE AND BEING WACKOS ALLRIGHT.I WAS ONLY SAYING MY OPINION, DONT YOU GUYS GET THAT, IS THAT "TOO" HARD TO UNDERSTAND, I ONLY SAID A FEW TIMES. HAVE A GOOD DAY

RandyA

Ditto to all that you said. In addition, many camps that have meat that is not eaten by hunters, the camp staff, or local residents is sold to meat packing houses, which resell the meat to various food outlets.

Mybigredford

Not only do hunters and local residents eat the meat but it is also sold to, and consumed by the general public. That makes African hunting is no different than elk hunting or the slaughter of cows in our country that are consumed by the general public. Hunting in Africa also creates jobs e.g. trackers, skinners, camp staff, ph's... and brings money into the particular country's economy - just as in the U.S.

Ant

Just browsing and could not help but notice the heated discussion going on here. I would have to say I have no desire to take a Zebra or giraffe but I would give up alot for a shot at a Kudu, cape buffalo, or a eland. I hope one day to pack up my father and go on a hunt in Africa. Living in Texas though I am but a few hours away from many ranches where I can hunt oryx, sable, nilgai and many other exotic animals. I personally try to go on a hunt every summer for axis, sika, fallow or some other kind of animal just to try and stay on top of the game.

Dear All

Thank you for your lively and sometimes, heated debate.

My name is Clement C. Victor and I started this discussion. It is interesting to hear the different opinions, though. I am professional hunter and outfitter in Africa. I have hunted from a very young age and have an intense love for nature as well as the exitement of the hunt.

I will catagorically answer the questions that has come up on this discussion. On this, you can in return ask some more questions regarding my answers or some other questions.

I want to ask you as a gentleman not to insult or bring someone else down in this discussion. Everyone has a right to his/her opinion and in the process, help eachother.

1. If you want to have a look at some pictures of Buffalo, you can have a look at my webpage www.users.lantic.net/victorhunt .
2. I have taken so many different species that it is hard to say which species is the most interesting. All animals are unique in their own way. Every single hunt, and I suppose it is like that in non-African countries as well, are unique. Every hunt is situated in a different setting and every situation differ. That makes my job so interesting.
3. Hunting in general, has become quite expensive in South Africa and for that matter, even in the rest of Africa. I do however offer non-trophy hunting in South Africa where the client pays cost for the game and a very reduced daily rate.
4. Yes, you always eat of the meat that you hunt. Well, I say this because I always let my clients eat of the animal that they have taken. I do not know if all outfitters do that though.
5. I do not know what the prices for hunting in other European countries or the Americas are, but I have heard some clients say that it is cheaper to hunt in South Africa.
6. Yes, Hippos are hunted a lot in Africa. I can not say why it is not promoted that much. It is definitely a very dangerous animal and the meat is very good to eat. This is a matter of taste and in my opinion, I prefer some other "land animals" rather than Hippo. Hunting them depends what the situation are e.g. dam, river, lake. If hunting them on land, the best is to go early in the morning when they start moving back to the water after feeding on land at night. This is very dangerous but very exciting. The advantage of this however, is that if they end up in the water from a bad shot, the fermenting grass makes it float, quiete quickly after it died. Shooting it in the water, especially in a strong flowing river, it is another matter and you could easily loose it. I prefer to hunt it on land. Remember that the client pays for the trophy, eventhough the professional hunter will do his best to recover the animal, it can sometimes get lost. This causes an unhappy client and an unhappy safari.
7. I will try and explain the matter of meat utelization as follows. I will only handle government concessions in other African countries, since South Africa is a different matter as the land and animals is privately owned:
If you are a concession holder, you are allowed to utelise some of the trophy's meat for camp cooking. By law, the rest and most of the meat must go to the local community. They usually smoke or just dry the meat because there is no other forms of preservation. All animal meat are utelised. It might sound odd, but there are some Africans (very few) that do eat Baboon and even Leopard meat. I have never seen or heard of some of them eating Lion or Hyaena meat though. It could also be that there could be a spiritual conatation to this. You must remember that every concession get a quota of game that are allowed to be hunted per year. Even though the law is strictly enforced on this, there is stil a lot of poaching going on all over Africa and unfortunately, this is very difficult to enforce, since the areas are vast stretches of land and still very wild.

Well. that just about wraps it up. This is just a short answer to the questions and I can elaborate a lot more but for now this should do. Please feel free to ask more questions. I will try and answer them to the best of my ability and as clear as possible. Thank you all for the interest in Africa.

Who and what determines if uneaten meat, by humans, is waste? I argue this all the time. Here in Wyoming the law was changed 5 years ago, stating that you only have to take the four quarters and the back straps of big game animals. Is the rest waste? Not in my opinion. The meat left laying and guts, feeds, coyotes, bears, lions, all kinds of varmits and birds. I highly doubt they think it is waste! When I see a dead animal, I see food for many wild creatures, and some of those creatures don't have to kill another live animal to eat. So in a sense you saved one by shooting one.

RandyA, i agree with you on that one.