Dirt2

I'll preface this by saying I'm not in the wolves-are-Satan-incarnate school.

Story #1: I moved back to Montana six years ago, after many years away. I went to work for a big time hunter, who had hunted the northwestern part of the state (Region 1). He was just full of tales of woe about how the wolves were pushing whitetails up there to the brink of extinction. He was "giving up hunting there anymore 'cause the wolves had killed them all", you know the refrain. Well, I'd just moved back and having been out of the loop for a while, I didn't have much to say, other than to wonder why now?, since wolves had always been there.

Anyhow, I was motivated by his stories to do some research, and about 12 minutes into my "research" I discovered that northwestern MT had had an absolutely brutal winter two years prior that had killed 40% of the whitetails. This winter never rated a mention with the guy! Incidentally, that herd is coming back quite nicely since then, if the ever more generous doe tags they are offering up there are any indicator.

Story #2: I scout elk just everywhere, if it's in Region 2 or the north half of Region 3, I've probably been there, and maybe hunted it. That's a sweep of country about 200 x 100 miles. Anyhow, in the past two years I have discovered a honeyhole, a piece of country with, in my experience, the best elk hunting I have found. Now, imagine my surprise to find that a prominent local elk hunter has hunted this same spot for years, but is giving it up. He's telling everybody that (you probably can guess) wolves have ruined the hunt by killing off all the elk! I mean this is the best elk hunt I've ever seen, and this guy is convinced that the wolves have pushed the elk to the brink of extinction. The guy is considered to be an elk-hunting wizard. Incidentally, the F & G has reported succeeding record elk counts up there for two or three years running.

The moral of the story is to take tales of wolves with a grain, or better two grains, of salt.

rather_be_huntin

I like the post Dirt2. This has been my experience with wolf stories. I DO believe wolves are a problem in some areas. Meaning they need to be controlled due to over population and we do need to get control in state hands. But the blanket statement that wolves are killing everything just never seems to hold water once the facts are laid out and as you said, are tales. Wolves are blamed for other factors and the impact they have is often exaggerated.

RandyA

They are killing and eating machines. How much meat can 1000 wolves eat? Any idea? I don't either, but that is the last count on number of wolves in Wy,Mt,Id. 5 pounds a day? thats 5000 pounds each day or about 8 elk. 365 days a year, well over 2000 elk each year, not to mention how many are killed and not eaten. I see no good coming from introduced wolves. Just less hunting opportunities and less chance of filling my freezer.

losthwy

Giving your figures are correct, that is less than 700 elk per state. Wolves mainly prey on the old and others weaken by disease since they are easier to bring down, would you want to eat a old, diseased elk? "Killed and not eaten" what makes you believe wolves would expend energy to chase and kill an animal and not eat it???? Humans are knowned to to that, which is why it is a crime in all the states, but not wolves.

idahoelkinstructor

RandyA and lostwy, our own Fish&Wildlife Service figure that each wolf kills 1.5 elk per week, of course that is averaged over a year. With a 1000 wolves? I don't know the overall number, the only hard fact nuber I know of is that their are 400 wolves in Central Idaho. But guessing 1000 wolves? That comes to 1500 elk per week, 6,000 per month, 72,000 elk per year. If it seem high its because it is, they do kill a lot of elk, not just the weak and the sick. Thats a holywood bedtime story that many wolf lovers want people to believe. I just went to a Idaho Fish & Game meeting here in Idaho Falls last night. One the big issues was the wolves, they are trying to get permision to go in and remove (kill) packs of wolves in problems area's like in Central Idaho. Wolves are a problem all right a huge problem. I am not saying that we need to kill each and every one off, but we need to be able to control them. That means delisting them off the endangered speices list and managing them like a bear or lion. As far as them killing elk and other animals for fun well they do that quite a bit too.

RobinHood36

Just remember that the big herd bulls which are breeding the cows and have been defending there harem, fending off other bulls, keeping there cows in check, have lost a considerable amount of body fat over there rut season, are now one of the weak elk. These big herd bulls which are passing on there gene pool for healthy offspring, are now prime candidates for wolf bait....by the way, we have to have the wolves for the health of the herd---Right??

Duffy

Well I don't have 2 wolf stories but I have one, 2 wolf story.

I was out looking for a mule deer and happened upon a pack of wolves chasing some white-tails in a cutblock. I got set up with my lever-action .300 savage and started squeeling on a fawn distress call (eastman deer talk call). Two wolves came a runnin at me. I hit the far one (about 75 or 80 yards) and then dumped the close one at 40 paces. Had to get back on the far one and emptied my gun at him. Killed him with the 6th shot.

One of the wolves was collared as part of a study being done by the University of Alberta and Fish & Wildlife. I sold the carcuses and returned the collar to the fellow doing the study. He said that so far the prey taken and frequency depends upon pack size. It seems that if a pack is less than 7 animals it takes more deer than anything and about 1 every 2 or 3 days. If the pack is larger than 8 then they tend to try for moose or elk more often. F&W does not have a real good handle of the #of wolves (and pack sizes) in Alberta but this study is opening some eyes. Most hunters and outfitters I talk to say they are seeing many more wolves and wolf track than they have for many years.

Robin

RandyA

Fantasy and poppycock! It was documented last winter that a pack moved onto one of the feed grounds here in Wy. They killed 23 elk that the G&F could find. No one knew how many ran off and died from stress. They like to kill and use killing to train the young.

Here is letter from a real rancher in a real world with real wolf problems. They live about 55 miles from me and this is her letter to the editor of the local papers.

Meeteese wolves don't fear humans





Editor:

I would like to comment on something that Ed Bangs said during the most recent incidents with the wolves out of Meeteetse: "Any human activity will scare wolves off their prey; otherwise they would have eaten the whole horse."

I live and work on a ranch in this area where we have had seven confirmed wolf kills, and none of the animals were eaten. Two of the animals were killed in fields directly behind my house; all of the others were killed in mountainous pastures with no human activity. In one incident, the wolves killed four full-grown cattle in an area of 50 feet. Since no one is around the area to scare them off, please explain to me why they weren't eaten. If wolves are so scared of humans, how come they walk up to my husband while he is dragging meadows and stare at him, why do they come up to us 100 yards or less when we are calving, why do they come up to our yard fence and walk through the ranch when we are present, why did they have their pups directly above where the loggers are cutting?

I would also like to tell you that wolves don't kill only when they are hungry. Many times they will kill animals to show their young howl, yet they don't eat them. If you would like to see this slaughter, head to the nearest ranch. If you can't get out of your office to see this, then look back at the seminar that was put on in 1994 at the Meeteetse gymnasium. At that program were pictures of a considerable amount of deer in Canada that were slaughtered by wolves. None were eaten; the only thing eaten on some were the fetuses out of the pregnant doe.

I would also like to correct another comment that you used in an earlier article. This is in regards to the "Black Widow." You seem to think that if you kill her off that the other wolves will not know how to kill cattle/sheep. Wolves instinctively know how to kill and refine their skills by observing the older wolves. They don't decipher between an elk and a cow. It is food, mostly a sport, and it is killed in the exact same way. We have watched them kill elk and their young the same way that they have our cattle.

Maybe these words will help you to understand the animal instead of reading junk out of a book that is inaccurate.

KARLA GITLITZ, Meeteetse

Elkcrazy8

I have come across more dead animals every year. I dont beleive that they are not making an impact on the elk and deer herds. If they are not a problem, then why is Fish and Game pushing for killing those in troubled areas with the backing of trained biologists? The greenies feed off of posts like this and I don't intend to give them any food for thought. I have personally witnessed and heard of wolves coming into elk calls. To them it is a dinner bell. Yes they will definatly cull the sick and week but also the disadvantaged such as the bulls that robinhood36 spoke about. The presence of wolves also puts additional stress on the animals trying to make it through on the winter range. If an elk is teetering on the fence of weekness , a wolf will definately have its next meal. Cows that are stresed on the winter range will yeild lower calf rates and or the calves will not be up to par if they are born. The wolves have a snowball effect far beyond the downing of game. It carries over you calf yields and mortality rates. Couple in a hard winter with high stress rates and the elk herds will deplete quicker that they are being replentished.

2point

If wolves only kill the weak and sick I have some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona. I talked to a biologist around Gardiner north of the park and he said the wolves are really taking a toll on the northern elk herd,. Why did late season permits go from 1400 this year to 140 next year. Drought, mountian lions, and grizzlies guess again. I have seen wolves around the park and they are killing machines that will kill and leave animals to rot, especially bighorn sheep. I live in the bitterroot and they will deplete the numbers around here in time. They already have pretty good numbers in the west fork and east fork. When they first put them in the park they had 2 litters a year and now they are back to one litter per year because the elk numbers are down, so when the wild game is really depleted and smartened up, what do you think they will be eating. 2point