More "wolf" news!
12-17-2004, 03:23 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
More "wolf" news!
A "FWP regional wildlife manager" --- that would be one of those PhD, statistically sound, scientific method, "qualified to speak guys" right? I'm still bettin' the old guy up in Hinton, Alberta (where the transpanted wolves were trapped) is still just splitin' a gut!
=================
By SCOTT McMILLION, Chronicle Staff Writer
HELENA -- The winter elk hunt in Gardiner will be cut from 1,180 hunters to 148 hunters, mirroring the steady downward spiral of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission decided here Thursday.
The hunt is likely to be discontinued altogether in the future, said Kurt Alt, FWP regional wildlife manager.
"It's probably going to go away," he said.
He cited the heavy density of wolves in and near the park, coupled with other predation, as a reason for cutting the hunt by more than 90 percent by January, 2006.
The northern Yellowstone herd hit a peak of about 19,000 animals in 1994. The next year, wolves were reintroduced and elk have been on a steady decline ever since.
"It's just one more mouth to feed," Alt said of the wolves.
As recently as 2000, FWP offered more than 2,800 tags for the late hunt, which aimed to harvest mostly female elk that migrated out of Yellowstone National Park.
"We expect to observe less than 8,000 elk during this December's count," Alt said. "Wolf lovers will have a hard time accepting that wolves are having such an impact."
He noted that in 1968, when the National Park Service stopped culling elk inside the park, there were about 4,000 elk there. By 1975, the year the late hunt commenced, the number had climbed to 12,000. In those years, there were no wolves, about half as many grizzly bears as there are today, and a lot fewer lions, Alt noted.
He said that, with the abundance of predators in and near the park, he fears that "one bad winter" could drop the elk herd to the 1968 level and the smaller herd would then face all those predators.
Critics of wolf reintroduction have pointed to reduced elk numbers for years and blamed wolves for them.
Now it turns out they're right, at least partly.
Recent studies in Yellowstone have shown that 70 percent of elk calves die from predators by the end of September of their first year.
Bears, both black and grizzly, account for about 60 percent of the calves that die in the first few weeks of their lives in the jaws of predators. After the calves become more mobile, wolves begin killing more of them and bears kill fewer, the studies show.
Springtime counts over the last three years have shown that between 12 and 14 calves per hundred cows have remained alive through the first year of their life.
A calf/cow ratio of about 20 is needed for a herd to sustain itself, Alt told the commission.
FWP commission chairman Dan Walker asked him if he expected to see that level reached within the next 10 years. Alt said "no."
The commission also approved Montana's statewide elk plan, which focuses on ways for people to harvest more elk, if necessary. Unlike the area just north of the park, most elk hunting districts in the state contain more elk than guidelines call for, leading to landowner complaints.
It's possible that some districts could be limited to antlerless elk only, in efforts to reduce populations.
Alt said he is not concerned about wolves causing similar big drops in elk numbers in other parts of the state.
It hasn't happened in northwest Montana, he said, or along the Rocky Mountain Front, where wolves have lived for years.
Wolves will continue to spread out from the park, but a significant number will get get in trouble with livestock and likely will be killed, Alt said.
"Whether they are listed (by the Endangered Species Act) or not, wolves will be managed on landscapes where people live and work," he said.
FWP is taking over many wolf management duties from the federal government.
Once delisted -- a step that could be years away -- Montana hopes to install limited hunting and trapping seasons for wolves, he said.
=================
By SCOTT McMILLION, Chronicle Staff Writer
HELENA -- The winter elk hunt in Gardiner will be cut from 1,180 hunters to 148 hunters, mirroring the steady downward spiral of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission decided here Thursday.
The hunt is likely to be discontinued altogether in the future, said Kurt Alt, FWP regional wildlife manager.
"It's probably going to go away," he said.
He cited the heavy density of wolves in and near the park, coupled with other predation, as a reason for cutting the hunt by more than 90 percent by January, 2006.
The northern Yellowstone herd hit a peak of about 19,000 animals in 1994. The next year, wolves were reintroduced and elk have been on a steady decline ever since.
"It's just one more mouth to feed," Alt said of the wolves.
As recently as 2000, FWP offered more than 2,800 tags for the late hunt, which aimed to harvest mostly female elk that migrated out of Yellowstone National Park.
"We expect to observe less than 8,000 elk during this December's count," Alt said. "Wolf lovers will have a hard time accepting that wolves are having such an impact."
He noted that in 1968, when the National Park Service stopped culling elk inside the park, there were about 4,000 elk there. By 1975, the year the late hunt commenced, the number had climbed to 12,000. In those years, there were no wolves, about half as many grizzly bears as there are today, and a lot fewer lions, Alt noted.
He said that, with the abundance of predators in and near the park, he fears that "one bad winter" could drop the elk herd to the 1968 level and the smaller herd would then face all those predators.
Critics of wolf reintroduction have pointed to reduced elk numbers for years and blamed wolves for them.
Now it turns out they're right, at least partly.
Recent studies in Yellowstone have shown that 70 percent of elk calves die from predators by the end of September of their first year.
Bears, both black and grizzly, account for about 60 percent of the calves that die in the first few weeks of their lives in the jaws of predators. After the calves become more mobile, wolves begin killing more of them and bears kill fewer, the studies show.
Springtime counts over the last three years have shown that between 12 and 14 calves per hundred cows have remained alive through the first year of their life.
A calf/cow ratio of about 20 is needed for a herd to sustain itself, Alt told the commission.
FWP commission chairman Dan Walker asked him if he expected to see that level reached within the next 10 years. Alt said "no."
The commission also approved Montana's statewide elk plan, which focuses on ways for people to harvest more elk, if necessary. Unlike the area just north of the park, most elk hunting districts in the state contain more elk than guidelines call for, leading to landowner complaints.
It's possible that some districts could be limited to antlerless elk only, in efforts to reduce populations.
Alt said he is not concerned about wolves causing similar big drops in elk numbers in other parts of the state.
It hasn't happened in northwest Montana, he said, or along the Rocky Mountain Front, where wolves have lived for years.
Wolves will continue to spread out from the park, but a significant number will get get in trouble with livestock and likely will be killed, Alt said.
"Whether they are listed (by the Endangered Species Act) or not, wolves will be managed on landscapes where people live and work," he said.
FWP is taking over many wolf management duties from the federal government.
Once delisted -- a step that could be years away -- Montana hopes to install limited hunting and trapping seasons for wolves, he said.
12-17-2004, 03:29 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: More "wolf" news!
I for one have no desire to get in that debate again so I'll echo the common ground I think we ALL had on this issue. The wolves need to be de-listed immediately as population control is OBVIOUSLY needed in this region. I for one would support any effort to get wolf management in state hands.
12-17-2004, 03:48 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,395
RE: More "wolf" news!
The wolves need to be de-listed immediately as population control is OBVIOUSLY needed
SSS
12-18-2004, 07:35 AM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 674
RE: More "wolf" news!
Its funny all of that debates we had last time this went around I kind of kept out of it being from IL ( but dont get me wrong I want them gone too) One of the post some one gave a writing from a Phd the way it went was that the wolves will push out the other preditors . I dont know if this has anything to do with it but we all of a sudden have mountian lions in Iowa & IL. they just shot one 10 miles from my house and there are a lot more been reported seen. It started a few years back when you heard about them in western Iowa eastern NEB. then In MO. now here in IL. I live on the east side of IL. so all I can say is get ready east of here there coming
Oh yeah we have no laws on them here so we can kill them site on spot . Maybe Ill get my cougar hunt here and save a couple grand and a trip out west . But some jacka$$ will push to leave them alone and let them be . Population here is way to great for that somebody or kid will get killed .
Oh yeah we have no laws on them here so we can kill them site on spot . Maybe Ill get my cougar hunt here and save a couple grand and a trip out west . But some jacka$$ will push to leave them alone and let them be . Population here is way to great for that somebody or kid will get killed .
12-18-2004, 11:04 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: More "wolf" news!
muley69,
I understand the SSS and for elk hunters fed up with the seemingly oblivious course taken by our government it may give them some satisfaction, but here is the part that worries me....
In another thread, over at DeerHunting.com
, Stubblejumper who is from Alberta (where our lovely wolves were trapped and imported from) says that they pretty much shoot wolves "on sight" (apparently legally, you can book hunts to go shoot wolves in Alberta & BC) AND it is NOT fazing the wolf populations, sooooo
I'm thinking a bunch of us slinking around like we are criminals (and under threat of federal law) doing the SSS thing isn't going to substantially affect the population growth of these critters. I've seen comments by the FWS folks essentially acknowledging the SSS factor and not being too worried about it. The last time this mess was cleaned up it took more than simple marksmanship to remedy the problem....
I'm thinking "right now" is going to be the "good old days" of elk hunting out west and in 10 to 20 years we'll be moaning about the "good old days" of large elk herds ---- here's food for thought. When the supply of elk gets scarce, like up at Gardiner MT, whose license quotas do you think are going to get shrunk first? Residents or Non-residents? I'm betting non-residents. Colorado is frequently the "safety valve" state for elk hunters that can't draw a license elsewhere or simply didn't plan ahead. I'm predicting in 10-20 years, the wolves won't be the only ones howling; a bunch of tagless non-resident hunters will be tuning up right along with them, just those hunters will be doing their howling from home.
I understand the SSS and for elk hunters fed up with the seemingly oblivious course taken by our government it may give them some satisfaction, but here is the part that worries me....
In another thread, over at DeerHunting.com
, Stubblejumper who is from Alberta (where our lovely wolves were trapped and imported from) says that they pretty much shoot wolves "on sight" (apparently legally, you can book hunts to go shoot wolves in Alberta & BC) AND it is NOT fazing the wolf populations, soooooI'm thinking a bunch of us slinking around like we are criminals (and under threat of federal law) doing the SSS thing isn't going to substantially affect the population growth of these critters. I've seen comments by the FWS folks essentially acknowledging the SSS factor and not being too worried about it. The last time this mess was cleaned up it took more than simple marksmanship to remedy the problem....
I'm thinking "right now" is going to be the "good old days" of elk hunting out west and in 10 to 20 years we'll be moaning about the "good old days" of large elk herds ---- here's food for thought. When the supply of elk gets scarce, like up at Gardiner MT, whose license quotas do you think are going to get shrunk first? Residents or Non-residents? I'm betting non-residents. Colorado is frequently the "safety valve" state for elk hunters that can't draw a license elsewhere or simply didn't plan ahead. I'm predicting in 10-20 years, the wolves won't be the only ones howling; a bunch of tagless non-resident hunters will be tuning up right along with them, just those hunters will be doing their howling from home.
12-18-2004, 11:51 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 882
RE: More "wolf" news!
The January 05 issue of the American Hunter has got a pretty good article on the wolf problems. Based on this article there's definitely a problem. I don't live out west and can't say much, but based on what I read, there better be something done are you folks in elk country are going to lose big time.
dog1
dog1