bigger gun??
 

I have hunted all of my adult life with the trusted '06 my father gave me.
Now that I am trying to kill myself walking the hills of Colorado in search of elk, thought the time might be right to move up the rifle size ladder.

Read lots of good ideas/opinions on this site. Heard several more from my pardners around here.
I have come across a good deal on a Rem 338 UM. Now (ducking).......anyone have an opinion on this caliber?

I don't need any of the "06 is plenty of gun as I have killed Mastedon's with a straw and paper wad many times" comments!!! I agree with you. I would never shoot my old thumb-buster at anything beyond 300 yards..........probably more like 250 as the limit. I know my limitations!

But hunting that country now for a couple years, easy to see myselt letting a good one walk because of my weapons' limitation. I found a great spot to sit one afternoon, thought it looked perfect with lots of sign. Upon settling in, ranged the area for markers to use later and found that the elk would have to cover 1/3 of the distance from the cover to me before getting into my range.

So any thoughts on this cal.?

RE: bigger gun??
 

378 Weatherby. Flat shooting and hard hitting.

RE: bigger gun??
 

I appreciate the fact that at least you are talking about stepping up in caliber enough to make it worth while. The 30-06 ain't bad. I find the 338WinMag to be a bona fide elk rifle (in the varmit, deer, crossover, elk rifle, elk hammer, .... continuum). The 338RUM is a winnie on steroids, even stronger.

Per the parameters of your question regarding the 338RUM you have found at a good price.... I'd have to say yes --- good choice, conditioned on the following....

The question in my mind is, "Will you spend the time and money to get some top notch instruction from a certified NRA insturctor, who ALSO likes big bores, on how to handle it WELL?" When you move up to that level of play there are a whole different set of factors in the mix that demand proper technique and equipment fit. I'd hate to see you buy it, get "introduced" via the "school of hard knocks" and then sell it in 6 months because, "Mama, it hurts me and I just can't hit with it!" [Even much more so for a 378 Weatherby!]

EKM

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NO offense intended...........but I need a certified instructor showing/telling me how to shoot like I need a another wife!!! Load, look, shoot. I am sorry if I make it sound trivial or simple.........but it is. Now my buddy that reloads for me.....he has the harder task. The shooting is the fun part.

I have already shot the gun in question and found the kick/recoil to be a lot less than advertised. My '06 with no pad, just the factory plastic butt plate, kicked harder to me. Never shot a gun of this caliber or bigger, but all the talk had me thinking it must really be something. Based on this experience, I will no longer listen to what "others" say about guns and their kicking/recoil/etc. The gun did not hurt me. The gun did not make me flinch. I did not run home to mommy and ask for a booboo pad! The gun was loud. (has a muzzle brake that I will see about removing). Please don't let somone else "tell" you what you will feel/not feel.

I grew up shooting my grandpaw's 12 guage reloads. The man never had any instruction in the field, so as long as your gun stock didn't split you were okay. In fact, his gun was missing a chunck of the stock for this very reason. I have never understood so many hunters total aversion to the recoil of a gun. It all takes place "after" you pull the trigger!!! I focus on the target, right or wrong. I am not thinking about the fact that my 12 gauge is still another inch or two from my shoulder when I pull the trigger on a Dove or Quail!!! The bruise afterward tells me......but I still do it!

If the gun being shot interferes with your ability to shoot it because it is too heavy/loud/long/ etc., the I understand the problem. I just like to shoot and hunt.
I am no great shooter. But the gun shot and felt good. Personally, I want to feel the gun buck!!! Did she buck???? I have .22 calibers for plinking and loaning those that don't want a "kicker". The feedback I got from this gun told me that I was on the right track.

BTW....my grandmother (god rest her soul) could have shot this gun and smiled. But she was a rare one, another story for another time!

Thanks for the feedback all. Elk might be the biggest thing I ever shoot at so maybe this gun will do! If not, then gosh, gee wiz, guess i would have to get another one!!! Darn the luck!

I hear what you are saying and have read all the rhetoric on these posts about "gun recoil" and such...............but why are some so adamant against using a larger caliber? Do these same guys think that I should be driving a compact pickup instead of 3/4 ton just because "they" do or "think" I should??? I do not understand.
As stated previously, I am not a great shot and need every advantage I can muster. Especially in a country where they won't let me bring my feeders and deer corn!!!!

Between you and me EKM......my experience, and I am just going on me personally, I experience a lot more "shot anticipation" shooting my bow than I do with a rifle. A bullet always tells the truth! That dang arrow is a lieing SOB sometimes!! heeheee

RE: bigger gun??
 

Follow up question and now more important given the fact that the gun is now mine.............
What scope suggestions you guys have? Will be used for Elk only. (Whitetails deserve a little less)

I have been a Leupold fan my whole life. Have seen a Nikon that I liked. I am a middle of the road guy, not the most expensive but not the cheapo route either.
I am curious mostly as to magnification. I have a 3x9 on my '06 but was wondering if going with a longer range gun, would I benefit from a scope that has higher power settings??? 3x12? 4x14?

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RE: bigger gun??
 

Personally anything over 10 power on a biggame setup is not desired, but I am not you. The fact many leave their scopes in the middle of adjustment levels and rarely touch's it while hunting would lead me to believe I am in the norm and not the exception when it comes to mag of a scope I really require. I however do play with the power when hunting and while it sits around the 6 power range I have turned it down 3-4 and up to max 9-10 to make a shot when required. Long and short anything in the 3-9 or 10 should suffice. Again though being it is a personal choice you'll have to decide if 12 or 14 power would be required on a elk gun?

As to brand I would look long and hard at a 40mm Zeiss Conquest with 4" of constant eye relief, fast eye focus, 1-Piece Tube, ability to mount low and quality in glass it should be a good fit on your new setup. No matter what scope you may decide upon I would choose Leupold DD 2 pce mounting system to hold her tight.

RE: bigger gun??
 

RedRiver,

If you drop right in with your new acquistion without missing a beat, then good for you --- many (most) are not so (ahem), "durable."

I believe the jury is still out on recoil however,

Drop the muzzlebrake,
Drop in some full house 250 grain,
Drop me a line as to how it went, may not be the same *****cat as on the "test drive".

I like yourself had a long history of guns only to find out I was shooting reasonably well INSPITE OF MYSELF instead of because of myself. As always you can count on me not to "pull punches." My intention was to be sure to get your attention regarding a very common pitfall, not offend.... many rifles spend 6 months with their first owner along the lines I just outlined.

Good Luck,
EKM

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JD.......
guy I bought it from had reloaded 210gr Nosler partitions for it and shot pretty well when testing. My brother took his first elk with it (see Brother thread) this season shooting those loads. Now granted the shot was at 74 yards, but there was plenty of "meat shock" and fragments left in the body. My buddy has reloaded some Accubonds for our '06's (180gr) and we really like them so far. Read where Federal has out some 225gr AB's in .338 RUM. Would like to reload some of these too. Might not be the same meat damage as the partitions. This gun has the factory pad on it so I will change it out. A friend had a "kickeze" magnum put on a 300 winmag and likes it so might try that one. My brother only remembers the crash of the bull and the smoke of the rifle!! As he says........if you don't enjoy shooting, don't shoot. I would never hunt with something that I didn't enjoy shooting. That is part of the process.......enjoyment! I look forward to shooting this gun a lot during the offseason. I think working up a load is probably the most enjoyable part. Miss that about my ol gun. It just shoots where it is supposed to, doesn't require tuning.

BTW......didn't mean to be "short" with my response earlier about "getting instruction". I think of shooting just like my golf game. Worked long and hard getting it where it is!!! I grew up in the woods, hunting/fishing/living. I have spent most of my 40 years shooting and hunting things. We couldn't afford custom guns and so you adapted to the gun, not the other way around. The gun A lot of times it was a hand-me-down that wasn't exactly right for you, but by god you wanted it and you learned to use it. Same as now.........I will adapt to the gun. I try to get the stock length comfortable, scope set right, and then start shooting. The gun will let me know what I need to do. If you listen, the gun will always tell you what to do. Seems to me everybody wants to make too much of getting "comfortable"!


I am more concerned about SAFETY than technique and recoil. SEE "They Shoot Horses Don't They" I am posting shortly.

RE: bigger gun??
 

Ekm.....no offense taken. I still stand by my earlier statement. That all happens after you pull the trigger.
Just because I know that women will hurt me.........never stops me from pulling the trigger with them either!!!!

I am all about the results. If you think about the punch, you won't get in the ring. I am no tougher than the next guy. Pinch me........do I not bleed?
But we ain't talking about getting your teeth knocked out with a hammer here fellows!!!!

Skeeter.......I will ask for a Zeiss for Christmas.......but I will be a happy camper if Santa brings a Leupold!!! I have looked at Vari-XIII, 3-10 that seems to be calling my name!!!

RE: bigger gun??
 

JD..........
Model 700. BDL I believe. But does have lots of scroll work on the action and a ram's head with scroll on the eject plate. Pretty gun.

EKM......will update you on the progress.
I have two boxes of 250 gr Aframes waiting to be used. But you bring up a good question. Can I remove the brake without any concerns??? I have read too many opinions on this subject here about the dangers of hearing loss using one in the field. I don't want to harm my hearing anymore than I already have.......(too many Nugent strangleholds at high volume)!!
Never had a gun with a brake so wasn't sure if I could shoot it without it on it? Be sweet if all I have to do is unscrew it and go!

I might even have someone video me during and after in case I call out to Mommy without knowing it!!!

BTW..........I will disavow all "mommy" cries if ever cross examined!!! Dad syndrome! First time I shot my dad's shotgun, it knocked me to the ground. Sitting there with what I know had to be eyes the size of silver dollars, I knew that when he asked "you okay"..........I damn well better answer fine followed with "I must have slipped" if I ever wanted shoot that gun again!! He let me and I did! Did she Buck??? You bet.......give her to me again!

RE: bigger gun??
 

"The gun had a muzzle brake"

No wonder it doesn't kick and no wonder your '06, kicks harder. The recoil arrestor is ust doing its job. However, there will be a BIG difference if you shoot it without the arrestor. You may not be recoil shy at all, but if you plan on hunting without it, I would try it before you buy. By all means, just keep the arrestor if it shoots good, but you better wear hearing protection, even in the field if you want to hear in the future. I know from personal experience that you will damage your hearing if you don't. Muzzle brakes are great, within their limitations. I wouldn't shoot my featherweight 7 mm mag without one.

That said, I love my 338 win mag shooting 225 gr bullets without a recoil arrestor. It seems to give me hard "push" instead of a kick. Of course the gun is about 9 pounds. May also have to due with the powder used in the loads I use.

Good luck with it if you decide to "adopt" it.

RE: bigger gun??
 

Thanks for the info Tx!
Heard plenty about the brake causing hearing loss and when in the woods I can't stand my ears being covered, much less wearing protection. Looks like I will go without the arrestor. I can learn to handle the recoil if necessary......can't learn to hear after it is gone!

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RE: bigger gun??
 

I shoot a .338 RUM in the Remmington 700 Model. It's a good, flat shooting rifle. I have gotten pass through consistently on caribou and the 1200 lb moose I took with the rifle since I bought it a few years ago.

It does kick, but it's not all that bad. I don't have a muzzle break on it, but I do have a pachmyer recoil pad. It's No worse than a 10 guage in my opinion, but I am also a big guy and avid weightlifter, so I have some extra padding. If you are one who really hates recoil though, I suggest a different gun. If it doesn't bother you, buy one, you WILL like it.

RE: bigger gun??
 

RedRiverHntr:

I have a .340 Wby. Mag. with a Pentax Lightseeker II 4x-16-44. I push a 250 gr. Barnes XFB at 3062 f/s 5204 ft/lb. If I do my part, I obtain .408" at 100 yds. Welcome to the world of .338 calibers.

RE: bigger gun??
 

RedRiverHntr I think that recoil is a personal thing. Some can take it some can't. I shoot a .300 RUM and it doesn't bother me at all. I have shot my friends .338 RUM and that doesn't bother me either. Of course I also go into a goose field packing either a 3.5" 12 gauge pump action, or a 10 gauge auto. With pistols I own and shoot a .454 Casull among others. I am 6'3' and 250 pounds, but recoil doesn't seem to bother me one bit! As far as accuracy is concerned all it takes for me is practice, practice, practice, no matter of the caliber, gauge, or recoil.

RE: bigger gun??
 

I think the 338RUM is one of the really great new cartridges, it is a step up from any 30cal yet not a 375 type cannon, there are really only a few good ones in its class. If you like it by ALL MEANS jump on it and enjoy it, I dont think it'll ever fail you if you do your part, but it may save you if you mess up slightly. My next rifle is going to be a 338RUM in a browning high/low wall or ruger#1.

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I dont want to step on toes here, but I dont see what the big fuss is about shooting game cleanly too 400yds with ease and 500yds with a lil bit of practice and the right equipment (which I think is THE most important part of the equation).

Before you shoot me with silverbullets and drive a wooden stake thru my heart hear me out. I have been shooting a Lazzeroni Warbird and taking at least a dozen head of game each year with it since 2000. I have a 6x24x50 Swarovski atop it and with 150grain Lazerheads they print +2.5" @ 100yds and -3.5" @ 400yds. I had a KDF Slimline installed on it and the Sako came with a Pachmayer Decelerator recoil pad. With the KDF on I can watch the bullet strike the target/animal with each shot. With a halfway decent rest such as my Caldwell bipod, a steady rest on a shooting house windowsill or shooting rails installed on my ladder stands, taking shots @ the 1/4mile mark isnt that tough in my honest opinion.

I have several other guns and used to take 300yd shots with my 7mags on a fairly routine basis. RRH I think you have the right idea with the 338UltraMag, with a high powered scope (my personal recommendation is something with at least 18-20power on the upper end of the powerscale) and some practice I think you can routinely put em in an elks kill zone @ 500yds and be very confident. Would I try it/recommend it with my ol '06 wearin a 3x9? NOPE! Sure it can be done but there are to many variables working against such a rig. But like I said, when properly equipped and with a few basics learned on the range, you are ready to take em with a high degree of certainty and efficiency.

As for hearing protection, the muffs are the best but cumbersome and not conducive to quick shots. Therefore I recommend the Walkers Game Ears. Not only do they protect your hearing from big bores and muzzlebrakes, they allow you to hear things you never thought before possible. I initially purchased them for use only while using my big rifle, now I use them while bowhunting, dove/duck hunting and turkey hunting. The incredible hearing is ALWAYS a plus and I certainly wish I woulda started protecting my hearing 20 years ago when I was a kid and began deerhunting. The Game Ears can be turned down to a "normal range" and then worn under insulated headwear in cold conditions. After one or two trips you will be accustomed too them and like I said after seeing their effectiveness you will actually prefer using them ALL the time!

Good luck,
RA

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Get a 7mm or a 300 ultra mag. Those are the 2 best rifles for the Elk here in colorado. :D

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I bought a .338 Rem Mag and absouletly love it. Good gun for all big game. Definetly a good gun for elk. Go for it you will regret your decision.

GHJ