anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

its a african hunting movie. Bow i dunno how you people feel about african hunting but heres my take. I'm deadset against hunting elephant, rhino and hippo. Why? well, who needs 3 tons of meat? second of all it's not hunting, you need like 10 guys to take down a elephant, and then what? It'sd just a waste. Anyway, in this video, these guys ere hunting hippo and they got one to charge them. this thing was 10 feet away and one guy shoots the thing in the nose which does nothing. When it's about 7 feet away, the other guy shoots it in the head and drops it. Then they finish it off with one more head shot. What do you guys think of this? They walk up to the thing that was chillin in the water, get it pissed by walkin right at it, then it charges and they start blasting! I hope no one thinks that hunting.

PS- wasn't sure what forum to put this in, so here I am

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

HAVEN'T SEEN THE VIDEO, BUT I AGREE DOESN'T SOUND LIKE HUNTING, MORE LIKE A SLAUGHTER.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

Keep in mind not all African hunting is like this. Some of these guys intentionally wound the animal to provoke a charge, they feel it sells movies, which it probably does. The sporting way to hunt hippos is to position yourself between them and the water, as they come back from a night raiding crops. How is this different from hunting deer? I'd say it's more sporting because they just might come for you.
Elephants are not killed by 10 guys, they're shot by one guy, in the brain, with a very large bullet. They usually die instantly. How is this different from hunting deer? Once again, only because jumbo may come for you if you make a bad shot. Those videos don't accurately portray this type of hunting. They don't showw the three days walking across the dry plains following spoor.
As for the meat, it's not wasted. Some of these countries have millions of starving people, and every scrap is eaten. The whole village joins in with the butchering. The Gov't usually won't allow hunting for natives, they make more money, and practice conservation, by leasing the hunting rights to outfitters. This is often the only meat in their diet, so they are very greatful when somone pops a large animal.
Take a look at some African forums, often the eleephants are raiding crops, and starving a family, so that is why they're shot. Without hunting, whole villages would often starve, as they're not allowed to shoot the elephants, even in self defense. The elephants learn this, and become very dangerous. People or elephants, that's often the choice. Also, an elephant hunt costs upwards of $40,000, usually, so the local economy depends on sport hunting. It's the only way to make the animals pay for themselves. Otherwise, there would be no elephant, except in large national parks.
Please look into this further beefore you let the antics of some clown cloud your viewpoint. Real African hunters look down on these videos the same as you do. The thing is, there's no "nonhunting voters" in Africa, so there's no pressure to keep things in good taste. Hunting is an industry there, so these guys get away with it.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

6pt, you hit on the point I was going to make: all the meat is eaten by the locals.
The other point I want to stress is that although the video you saw might be in bad taste, sport hunting of elephants has done more to keep that animal alive. Without the money coming in to hunt them, poachers would be shooting them for their ivory. And their killing is indiscriminate. With hunters, it is managed. In many African countries, there are now more elephants than they care to have. It is only the other countrries that haven't figured out how to manage wildlife where the elephant's population is wavering.
beej

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

If you don't like that you must hate coyote hunting. Here comes a poor little coyote thinking he's going to going to get an easy meal (a hurt rabbit instead of a ranchers sheep or calf) and some guys shoots him from behind a bush, peels his skin off and leaves the rest for the crows.

I'm trying to be humourously sarcastic here but sometimes it doesn't get across on a forum. These animals are not endangered other wise there would be no legal hunting of them (only poaching). Many of the elephants that are shot are considered nuisance animals (raiding villager's crops) and the meat does get eaten.

We feel we have the right to hunt north american big game and shake our heads in bewildered amazement at people who think we shouldn't. Why would we (as big game hunters) think it is not all right to hunt african big game?

Edited by - DaNewf on 02/26/2002 13:33:15

Edited by - DaNewf on 02/26/2002 13:35:00

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

actualy i own it but i think it would be alright if they wernt provoking(my opinion)the animals
its not that the animals are charging it that hes forcing them to

Edited by - denclark on 02/26/2002 15:31:33

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

All I'm saying is that why would you want to spend 40 grand on a "hunt" where you do exactly what the guide says, which is basically don't move until I say shoot, when you could actually hunt, for example, deer or bear or Pronghorn for less then $70 in the states. I dunno, like I said if it's a magagment thing, then I'm all for that...

but seriously I've seen videos of guys hunting Elephant and it really made me mad. There was like 8 guys and they surrounded the elephant, then the guide told the "hunter" to come up and shoot. I hope you guys are right when you say hunting hippo is nothing like what I saw in the video, because man, that was a bit upsetting.

It's different from hunting deer for 1, deer don't have 3 tons of meat on them and 2, deer don't cost 40 grand to hunt and 3, I promise you there is MUCH more deer on this earth then there is elephant and hippo combined, times two. I could have also swore that elephants were pretty close to being on the endangered species list?? Hmm, maybe not.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

LHF, There are anntihunting organizations out there that tend to make everyone think that elephants are endangered. I guess my writing skill is apparent as I tried to state this in the last post: Elephants are very numerous in the african countries that manage them for sport hunting. in the countries that don't have sport hunting of elephants, the only way for bush folks to make money is poaching rather than guiding(tracking, skinning, assisting, etc...)

I do agree with you that I don't see the enjoyment of shooting an elephant, however a hippo I think I could, as well as many other species of african animals.

However, I know some people like to shoot these animals so by God, let them. I am ok with it.

DaNewf, I am ok with shooting coyotes too!
beej

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

DON'T GET ME WRONG I'M ALL FOR HUNTING, AND HELPING THE LOCAL ECOMOMY BUY BUYING TAGS AND DONATING MEAT FROM THE KILL, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN WAYS OF DOING IT AND PROVOKING AN ANIMAL TO CHARGE YOU IS NOT ONE OF DOING IT. TO ME IT SEEMS TASTELESS.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

Beleive me I'm not against it as long as their are numerous animals to hunt. I didn't know Elephants were plentiful throughout africa, and same with hippos so I guess we learn something everyday :)

I'm with Robb on the provoking the animal to charge, I mean come on, I know that would be one heck of a rush but think of a gamble you would be taking. Is it really worth it?

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

It seems to me that we are all on the same page...hunt it, but do it ethically. I am all for it!
have a good one,

beej

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

About provoking an animal to charge, the hippo for instance.

In order to shoot a hippo somewhere vital you got to get it out of the water. If you shoot it in water that is deep enough you have to somehow stop it from floating away. Butchering is also a lot easier if you are not up to your chest in water. Crocodiles are another consideration in some of these rivers, especially with blood in the water.

I'm not sure but maybe the hunting tactics described for hippo are used for reasons other than just selling videos. I could very well be wrong though.

I'll bet no one here has a problem with deer or moose drives. Isn't that provoking an animal to run towards the hunter. It's not exactly the same I know but its comparable.

beej99, I'm okay with shooting coyotes too. Like I said in my post I was trying to be humorously sarcastic. Around 1985 coyotes migrated to Newfoundland on some ice flows. Being the ultimate adapter they have spread all across the island. They now compete with the lynx, fox and black bear for food. There have been some cases of sheep being preyed upon and witnesses have seen coyotes bring down caribou, both young and small adult animals. I'm all for a coyote hunting season but its not currently legal in Newfoundland, only trappers may take them.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> I envy the people from Canadian provinces and US states that can hunt coyotes. From what I read on forums such as this one it is fun and challenging.

Edited by - DaNewf on 02/27/2002 06:56:15

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

DaNewf, I can't believe that...No hunting season for coyotes! I came up here from Illinois where I would see coyotes on my way to downtown chicago. There was no closed season on them and no bag limit. ( I actually think there is still a a bounty on coyotes, albeit 2 bucks or something.)
The coyotes just destroy the local populations of birds...Now the pheasant population is virtually nil.
I hope they open it up soon in your neck of the woods.

Beej

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

LHF First of all I wouldn't put to much money on your statement that their are 10 times as many deer as there are Hippos. The Hippo is a very common animal throughout nearlly all of Sub-Saharan Africa. As far as Elephant, depending on where you are the populations are actually severly over populated in areas. Namley many areas that do not allow hunting or culling. I'd like to see that video that had &quot;8 guys surround an Elephant and just walk up to it and shoot it&quot; An Elephant in the wild is far from docile and is probably the most dangerous animal on earth in thight cover. Unless it is a park Elephant that is used to people. Generally an Elephant will charge with deadly effect at the first provocation in tight cover. By provocation I mean catching your sent or hearing you ETC. There were not to many professional ivory hunters that lived to old age.
As far as Death On The Run I've seen it and it's tackey and over dramatised at best. The last scene where Pedro the hunter wounds the Buff and then our intrepid hunters purpousley circle up wind to make the critter charge is pretty good footage however it's a provoked charge from the word go. The little dialogue about using enough gun makes me want to puke.
As far as the Hippo charge goes did you know that more people are killed by hippos on dry land than any other African animal. (Dry land does not include Crocs). If you want a Hippo to charge all you've got to do is either wittingly or unwittingly place yourself between it and it's nearest path to deep water he'll run right through you to get to it. I agree that Mark Sullivan's films are bit off the beaten path and totally miss out on the politcally correct band wagon. He does however get some pretty spectacular footage. I strongly dissagree with any disillusionment about Elephant or Hippo hunting. If it were not for sport hunting and the associated fees there would be no Elephant left in parts of Africa. As far as ease goes it doesn't matter how many hunting staff are present to shoot a good tusker takes hard work money and element of danger is very real. In fact of all the African Big 5 Elephant will probably take the most miles on foot and is the toughest if you want a good one.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

LHF,
You sound a bit like an anti in that you speak about things that you know nothing about. Are you more bothered by the poor little dumbo or the $40,000 someone pays to do be &quot;told&quot; by a guide, when to shoot. Adding to the pro elephant hunting comments already made, I would only like to say that hunting dangeous game is exactly that, dangerous! Until you have done it I suggest you hold open your mind to the possibilty that these animals have earned a reputation over many years. It is no folklore, and the need to wait for instructions from the professional hunter could literally mean the difference between your life and death. As far as the money goes, that $40,000 spent for an elephant does far more for african elephant conservation then you will spend on whiteails in your entire lifetime. It really ticks me off when my fellow deer hunter turns enemy when confronted with hunting outside of his hometown.
A far as Mark Sullivan goes, I have met and spoke with him at lenghth on a few occasions regarding his films and I have read his book. None of the animals in his films were ever intentionally wounded although his follow up is certainly different than most PH's and admittedly so. In most cases and having hunted buffalo I can tell you that there are very few one shot kills and that there is usually a follow up, and yes it is usually close. The buffalo I shot was taken at 60yds perfectly behind the shoulder. When we butchered him, his heart and lungs were virtually liquified by the 400 grain bullet that I used. Well he ran off and when we followed him, he was laying in a thorn patch 20 yard away when he got up. He ran out the other way and 3 more immediate shots finished him, but had he turned right instead of left, he would have been on us in a second. Until you have done it or done extensve reading on the subject I would refrain from making comments that are based on pity for the &quot;defensless&quot; animal rather than fact.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are you more bothered by the poor little dumbo or the $40,000 someone pays to do be &quot;told&quot; by a guide, when to shoot <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

the 40 grand you pay someone to do the hunting for you. Not &quot;little Dumbo&quot;...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Until you have done it or done extensve reading on the subject I would refrain from making comments that are based on pity for the &quot;defensless&quot; animal rather than fact.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

uhhh, you must think I belong to peta or something. My only point was why would anyone want to spend 40 grand for someone to tell them to shoot an elephant. How dumb is that? I'm all for hunting, but I just don't see the point in shooting an elephant!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>It really ticks me off when my fellow deer hunter turns enemy when confronted with hunting outside of his hometown.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

lol, okay, listen. I'm not against hunting elephant. And I know it's nessesary, however you will never see me doing it because I think it's a waste of money and have no disire to hunt a elephant.

I could hunt deer or bear or whatever for the rest of my life on 40 grand... or I could give it to a guide so he can take me to an elephant, tell me to stand up and shoot. I'm sure it would be one heck of a rush to be 30 yards from a pissed off elephant. And I'm sure it would be a fun experience to be in that type of country. But like I said, I just don't see the point.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

Hey some people would think it is crazy to spend $800 on a new rifle, $700 for a nice new compound bow but to those of us that like that type of thing it is not a problem to spend the dough. Lease fees in my area can be a few grand per year. Yes that sounds nuts to some folks but most of us pay it each season or else we do not hunt. It is all what you like man, it is all the same and should be put into that perspective. You would not pay $40,000 for an elephant but if I had it and I doubt I ever will, I would spend it. Neither one is wrong different strokes for different folks you know.

RE: anyone seen 'death on the run'?
 

well, i never thought about it that way! good point! ok, we're even <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>