NVmike-you may have something there. We can make up the loss of the tag cost reduction pretty easy. We could allocate a fixed % of tags at the same cost but put non-res in a seperate draw. No competition for the same tags. This would allow the cost whiners to go up against USO with the same chance of drawing. Isolate the pool and let USO fight with it's future customers. The system would be fair if any % system holds up in court and I think the supremes will back the states. Why have the non-res and residents fighting each other when we all support hunting. Why raise a NR tag cost to $5000 just to help USO? Thanks.

Fieldmouse, read my post again. Gleninaz summed it up.

I thought the court ruling was the residents and non-residents had to all go into the same lottery, therefore they had equal chance to get a tag? Before the lawsuit was brought you had two lottery systems.

Mouse-You may be right but I remember reading the letter from Montoya explaining that they just wanted the full 10%(crap) and he was forced to sue to get that. He stated that the true allocation ended up below 10% so wouldn't that mean it was in the same draw pool before? I will find out and let you know. I am hearing about the state using USO indictments to make it illegal for any outfitter with a felony(lots in several states for USO) to do business in AZ. He wants to plead on his charges here and I am hoping we don't let him. If he pleas he will still be a felon. As I have said the states can and will get him in a legal manner that will stand up to court scrutiny. Bottom line is most here don't want to see your cost skyrocket as a result of this mess.

That felony rule sounds great. If you can't own a gun if your a felon, how can you guide someone with a gun? This will make them all live up to a good code of conduct.

I think that is a great idea.

PLB - your right on the direction this thing will go. IF this stands my idea wont be legal because it's a two lottery system. I dont think that this decision will stand in the end, but rest assured if it does fieldmouse and MA JAY (unless they are richies in which case I fully understand their stances) wont be able to afford to ever come out west. That is the real shame here. We out west dont and haven't ever wanted to keep the N/res out, only limit their numbers to a level where it doesn't interferr w/res.

fieldmouse - until now the 90/10 split has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do w/ the number of apps. The 90/10 split is for TAGS AWARDED, regardless of how many or how few apps their are. 600 total tags means 60 nonresident tags period. The resident odds could be 1:100 were the nonres could be 1:250 or vice versa.

I went off and read up a bit as to be able to understand better the ramifications of this ruling, and the hunting situation in Arizona better.

All I have to say is I feel for my hunting brothers in Arizona. You know what, 10 percent of the tags to non-residents is fine. I'll never bitch about it again. The state doesn't require a guide which I really like and though the non-resident license is very expensive, it isn't as bad as some other states. What is "bad" is the state of your hunting across the state. Where the hell did all your pronghorn go? Many of your prime areas for bull elk are pretty much ultra rich hunting preserves being managed by Indian tribe's .... I don't live there, but my sister does like I said, and I thought maybe chasing a javelina might be fun... but that is draw to. It appears everything is "draw" for you guys. At least here in the Northeast when I don't draw a moose tag I know I can hunt deer, bear, boar, or birds without a second thought.

Good luck, and I hope the hunting situation improves for you guys.

Jay-Thanks and you are right about cost. Why bitch about $371 for NR and $76.50 for res? That is 5X as much but still a bargain for an elk tag. USO has one objective and that is 50% of the elk via tha lawsuit or to get private land tags which will ruin the resource and chances for the average hunter. Our pronghorn, muleys and turkey are being eaten by yotes and are also impacted from a long drought. When it is common to see yotes on my street or on a golf course they are a problem. Too many people move here then vote to outlaw varmint contests and certain methods to control them and they are like any other animal. If there is enough food they will produce until they eat it all then start starving off. I still hope we can bend Taulman and his boys over by changing our rules without screwing people who deserve a chance to hunt here.