Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

My buddy and I are having a slight disagreement on "stopping power" of certain weapons....

Which of these three choices would be the best weapon to stop a charging grizzly at 60 yards and closer....



A. .300 Weatherby Mag.
B. 12 gauge slug
c. 12 gauge buckshot

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I woud take either of the 12 gague options.

For the buckshot I would want a full 3.5 inch 000 buckshot load and for the slug I would want a maximum loaded one ounce slug.

I'd also want them in a pump cause with my luck an auto would jam up on the first shot.:(

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I would think that maximum loads with a 12 guage and a one ounce slug would do the trick quite nicely.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

At 10 to 60 yard, I would take the 300 WBY with a stout 200 grain or 220 grain bullet. Under 10 yards I would take the shotgun for the sure quickness of speed I ageree with big bulls in a pump shotgun.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

i;de take the slug gun!!!

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

.300 Wby. Mag. Good luck.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

If I can't have my 45-70 then the 12 Ga. with Slugs would be my choice.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

In the situation you described about the only thing I'd want is my alarm to go off or the wife to roll over and say "Honey your going to be late"!!! ;)

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

12 gauge, :D3 inch slug

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I agree, I would take the 45-70 anyday (even over a .44 or .454), but since that was not one of your choices, I would take the 12 ga. with slugs. 3 inchers for good measure.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

Well, i've hunted big bears quite a bit, and shot a few too. You didn't say what "exact" load would be used in the guns you listed, and that's the "most important" part!!

Personally, the others here have a LOT MORE respect for a 12 guage on bears, than i do!! And as i get to pick the load, i'd take the 300 Wby any day over a 12 guage!!!

Drilling Man

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

12ga.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

You didn't say what the bear is doing.

I'd take the 300 inside of 60 yards.

Charging inside of 30 yards????? Maybe 12 gauge, because I "might" be able to get off 2 shots (if i was REALLY lucky) instead of 1 with the 300

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

Well being that most unalarmed small NC whitetails I have killed have run close to 100 yards after being "hammered" by a 300 weatherby as have most mule deer and elk . There is no way I would use it in a life and death situation...Buckshot or rifle slugs..have them mixed up in the tube magazine they are way better.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

When I was guiding in Alaska, most everyone carried a shotgun with buckshot for close range grizzly defense, including me. Most of the time the bears were fishing 50 yrds or less from you and your clients. I much prefer a shotgun in that type of situation.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I'd say go for the 12 gauge loaded with a slug followed by some buckshot- that way you can shoot the slug when hes farther away and then if he gets close you have the buckshot to finish him off.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I will take the .50 assault rifle for $500 please....

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

if the grizzly was on standing up growling at me... (300 weatherby mag) would knock him down in his tracks.. but if he was running at me i still would take the 300 weatherby if it was open sites and not scoped...i have a box of weatherby 220 grain round noses and a box of wolf brand buck shot in front of me as i type.. well i have to say i would never change my mind..lol

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

glock,

You would be very disapointed with those 220RN's out of a 300 Wby. mag., they just can't stand up to the high velocity of the Wby. on big game at close ranges!!!


It's true, a lot of guys carry a 12 ga for bear protection, but how many of them do you hear about useing them??? Personally, i always carried a rifle with proper bullets for the job, as i like the higher penetration and energy it has over a shotgun.

I use to see a LOT of guys carrying a 357 mag loaded with Norma 158 grain solids too!! I always told them, "save the last shot for your self, that way you won't suffer so much when the bear gets there!!!"

Drilling Man

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

DM the old saying goes " always be faster than your fishing partner or client"or "If you carry a pistol for bears always have 6 shots,5 for the bear and one for you."

My vote gose Winchester Mdl 1300 8-shot Camp defender in 12 ga. I'm fill'in her with 3 shots of 3 inch 000 Buck and 5 shots of 385 gr Winchester 3inch sluggs,when he turns my way I'm unloading on him.I can work a pump faster than a Rooster pheasant can fly out of my range,6 shots in 40 yards and that is after he's in the air and thats no BS.;)

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I personally watched a guy shoot a grizz at close range with a shotgun. I was impressed to say the least. There is a reason shotties are favored for close combat both in hunting circles and law enforcement.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

Well,

I've personally tracked down and found over a dozen deer shot with shotguns. Some with slugs, some with buckshot, most hit very well!! Some were dead, some needed finishing shots. I wasn't impressed at all, and i'm glad they "weren't" big bears, as they are a much tougher animial. I can list some of my findings if you want????

I haven't ever shot a bear with a shotgun, but i've had a couple friends over the years that have. They weren't impressed either!!! Most guys i knew, carried a shotgun because it was cheap, expendable, and handy, "NOT because they had seen how it worked" on big bears!!!

As for law enforcement, i agree. A short shotgun is good medicine for that purpose, but are you trying to tell me that an enraged 250 pound human being is comparable to an enranged 800 plus pound "brown bear"???????????????

I was on a shooting team for a time, and we challenged the law enforcement to matches every year (local and state police). Have you ever seen how the "average" law officer shoots?????? It's "no wonder" they use shotguns with buck shot!! hee he heeee

I've been around both, and i'll take a shotgun for the human, and a rifle for the bear!!! That's just me and my experence, it certainly doesn't matter to me what you choose.

Drilling Man,

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

slug id want something big and bad like a 3.5" magnum

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I'd take a 3.5" 12 ga vs. a .300 at 25 yards on a bear any day of the week.

All you have to do is shoot a block of ballistic gelatin at close range with both weapons and look at the wound profile.

Not to mention having to deal with a scope or even iron sights while a grizz is bearing down on you at about 25 mph. You can't beat the pointability of a shottie in close quarters.

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

I would use the 12Ga. buckshot depending on the load and size of shot for close encounters.My Great Grandpa stuck the barrels of a bouble barrel shotgun in a grizzly bears mouth and pulled both triggers and lived to tell about it.

300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

make science your friend...a 220 grainer is flying at 2845 fps with 3954 foot /lbs out of the muzzle...compared to 000buck at 1125 fps and 1500foot/lbs and a slug coming at the barrel at 1500 fps...with less then 2500 ft/lbs (GUNS&AMMO 2004 ANNUAL MAGAZINE )
no comparison..... i can understand that people feel safer with 8 shots compared to 4 but i guess it boils down to confidence in your shooting ability and shot placement..

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

make common sense your friend.

scoped rifle with 30" barrel and 3x scope at the lowest. 3 or 4 shots but you won't have time for more than one after u recover from recoil.

20" or shorter shotgun with reflex sights. 8 shots and may have time for 2 or so before you get mauled depending on the distance and whether or not it's a bluff charge. [8D]


I'm beginning to wonder just how many of you have actually been in close with animals and had to make a shot under extreme stress. Your not remembering what experienced people consider lessons learned.

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

30" BBL??????????? My "Bear rifle", if you want to call it that, has a 22" BBL, and the "other" one i used is a "double rifle" with 24" BBL. A double rifle is about 4" shorter over all compared to a pump shotgun or bolt rifle. And remember, that's with 24" BBL's!!

I'm always lost as to the "spray and pray" theory?? I learned at a young age that "one shot" is all it takes, so haveing two in my "double rifle" puts me way ahead of the game!!!

As for the scope, i have a 1-1/2 x 5 Leupold on my bolt gun, and when on 1-1/2 power it's faster than open sights, i'm just as good with it as i am with a shotgun. The double rifle has a quick detach mount, and i only put the scope on it for long shots. It snaps right on, and is sighted in for 200 yards. Kinda handy in caribou country!!

Drilling Man

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

I think we can both agree that spray and pray doesn't apply to a pump action shotgun.... lol?!

I think that term refers to pointing a full auto weapon and indirectly spraying the area rather than aiming.

Ok I will make a compromise: I would take a 444 guide gun (open sights of course) in lieu of a shottie if I had to. I've shot plenty of bears at close range with a guide gun and I think it's just about as handy/quick as my shottie. It's unproven on grizzlies though.

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

I guess I will be the odd man out on this one. I will take a can of Pepper spray.
I also want someone slower than me standing side by side with me.;)

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

einstein would slap you with your 12 GUAGE..LMFAO

there is no comparison on the knock down power between a 300 wetherby mag and a
12gauge slug or buck shot....

RE: 300wby mag best grizz medicane between the 3
 

No doubt!!!!!!!:D Heck you wouldn't even need a gun at that point. All you have to do is run faster than the other guy and you're safe.;):D

I beg to differ. There is a lot more to so called "knock down power" than just the KE levels and velocity.

Winchester loads a 385 grain, 45 caliber nosler partition slug at 2000 fps. This beats even the best 45-70 loads and I would much rather have a big 45-70 over the 300 any day of the week. I would take this over just about any rifle under the 375 H&H for nock you on your butt power. The 300 will probably penetrate all the way to the guts and more but Winchesters slug will simply knock the hell out of the bear.

This load generates 3420 foot pounds and the bullet starts out as a 45 caliber bullet.:)

300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

hey big bulls...so you are saying that a 385 GRAIN 45 caliber HOLLOW POINT
snail trailing a 2000 f.p.s. is better then a 200 grain .30 caliber nosler partition traveling at 3060 with 4158 ft/lbs of energy??? CRACK KILLS(PUT THE PIPE DOWN)

AS FOR A 45-70....I AM laughing my A$$ off... the best round for a 45-70 is a
p.m.c. 350 grain soft point... 2025 f.p.s. with 3167 ft/lbs... like i said a .300 weatherby would be a better choice......
all info from (2004 guns and ammo annual with ballistics chart)

RE: 300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

Like I said, there is a lot more to the so called "knock down power" than your Guns and Ammo ballistics chart and KE levels.

A bullets diameter and its meplate diameter have a tremendous effect on "knock down power".

I know that I am probably talking to a brick wall about this so you can go on thinking that a 30 caliber bullet has more stopping power than a big heavy 45 caliber bullet.

350 grain soft point from PMC huh? Did you get that from Guns and Ammo too?

RE: Best Grizzly "medicine" under 60 yards?
 

Here is an interesting link on "knock down" power called the Taylor index: http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July02.htm If my figures for the 12 gauge magnum 1 oz solid slug (454gr) are accurate, you get a value of about 50 on the Taylor index at 100 yards. I measured the inside bore diameter of my 12 gauge and got about 0.7 inches to use in the calculations. This load should outpenetrate just about any rifle out there including the 300.

You have to realize that the Taylor index should only be used to compare big, slow moving bullets, not fast, small bullets. Foot/lbs should be used for modern rifles such as the 300.

Bottom line, if I was hunting Alaskan critters, I would take the 300 and not worry. If I were fishing or just sightseeing, I would take the 12 with solids and not worry. I am not sure about buckshot. Each pellet would have much less ability to penetrate than the 1 oz slug.

300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

i respect your opinon as a fellow hunter and i assure you that you arent talking to a (BRICK WALL)..my family would tell you that i am "obsessed" with ballistic charts..LMFAO
I am however confident enough (to express my opinion) on this matter..i have hunted (grizzly country) in north central idaho in (the frank church wilderness area) with a
.300 mag . i do currently own a 12guage with a rifled barrel and the trauma is no where near that of a 3oo weatherby mag... i assure you a 12 guage is better then nothing !!!!!
but certainly not better then a 300 weatherby mag. you think that a .45 grain HOLLOW POINT (partition golds are hollow points) would penetrate bear fat better than a 180 grain
barnes X or winchester fail safe (both are also hollow points)?? you need to take a math
class !!!!! you need SPEED to penetrate bear fat tissue.. and that 45 caliber (snail) lacks it.
( to make you feel better i would prefer a smith and wesson .500 mag hand gun with
partition gold (hollow points) then a 12 guage.........BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME..LMFAO

RE: 300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

I totally agree with this statement. The 300 will cause much more TRAUMA than a 12 gauge and if you pin me down, I would probably choose the 300 hands down. However I still say that the 12 gauge may OUTPENETRATE the 300. Penetration and trauma/terminal damage aren't necessarily the same thing. If the 300 had a FMJ bullet, then it would probably outpenetrate. Otherwise, I suspect that the 12 gauge may penetrate further. As least the Taylor index thinks it would. Whether he is right or not, I don't know. Does that translate into putting the bear down sooner??? I also don't know.

To tweek the question further. If I had only one shot of any gun, I would choose the 300, no question. However, the fact that you should be able to get off more shots with the 12 gauge pump makes it a viable option.


This is all theoritical to me as the only bear I have ever shot was a Montana black with a 270. If a bear was charging me at close range what I would really want is a 50 caliber machine gun!

RE: 300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

I wouldn't classify the Frank as "grizzly country". I am a wildlife biologist on the north side of the Frank and we haven't had anything but a couple of "sightings" by drunk outfitters in alot of years. There may be a few but no one knows, but we can say with some certainty that if they are there, the total is less than ten individuals. So I would try to think of a better place to use of as your credentials. ;)

RE: 300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

Well, I would still rather have a 12 gague loaded up with a 385 grain slug or better IMO would be Winchesters full 1 ounce (437 grains) slug coming out the muzzle at 1760 fps. This scenario is a close range attack and a big arse slug slapping a bear in the chest will not only penetrate to the vitals but offer up one hell of a whollop at the same time. A heck of a lot bigger whollop than any .308 bullet could think about doing.

I am sure the 308 bullet will penetrate farther but that is not my concern in this scenario. My concern is puting the biggest chunk of lead possible in the bears chest and stopping the bear ASAP. The farther a given bullet penetrates the longer it takes that bullet to expend all of its energy and the less "punch" that bullet will have, more like a shove.

Do not discount big slow (snales) chunks of lead as very effective ammo. It's kind of like being hit with a baseball at 90 mph or a bowling ball ar 20 mph. Sure the baseball is gonna hurt really bad and may even break something but that bowling ball is gonna knock the hell out of you and keep you down for a long time.

I would still rather have a slow running guide. At least slower than me.;)

RE: 300 WEATHERBY WINS AGAIN !!!!!!
 

Iam with wolf killer . Spray the slow guy run like hell. :D