ELKampMaster

Good old Jack also used a 416 Rigby while in Africa.....

Now you know the rest of the story.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

cherokee_outfitters

That's right elkampmaster,

I've never read a story where Jack went after cape buffalo with a 270win. Maybe he did but I bet ole Capstick was standing behind him if so. lol

He made the 270 famous, if writers today mainly wrote on one caliber it would be a very hot item. But if they did that in today's magazine they wouldn't have a job very long or no sponsors. Funny thing today is if you grew up with no one in your family that hunted and where just starting out I think it would be very confusing trying to pick out a caliber with all the new stuff going on today.

The man is gone and soon the rest of us that grew up reading his stories will be too. The new generations of ultra mags is here. And so far seem to be doing a good job in the field. I will say some are trying to take alot futher shots than the should. The rifle is plenty capable but not the average shooter trying those shots.

Elmer Kieth once published and article that said he had taken mule deer with a 45lc pistol at 400yds+. Hell of a shot. Maybe he was undergunned by today's standards but he still made the kill. He was also a very good marksman. And the father of all magnum handguns we all love today. While I disagree with the raking shot the man usually never shot that way. And also carried a rifle more adequate of making that shot.

I respected both men and to this day believe both were right in there point of views. Just wish there was more like em still writing those articles.

Who would believe you could hit a balloon at 300yds with a 38spl snub nose? Watch american shooter enough and you'll see it.

I've shot our rifle ranges gong that is 24" dia at 575yds with a .54 cal lymans great plains rifle. It took 8 shots to find the elevation and I shot four more times I hit it twice. I would never even consider that while hunting but it sure was mighty fun to watch those peoples mouths drop open at the gun range. Some of them can't do it with a modern centerfire rifle. I'm not trying to brag or nothing but everything is possible when skill and luck meet opportunity.

We idolize certain people because of the image they produce. In the back of our boyish minds we all strive to be just like them or even better.

I just like talking about all this stuff, really truly and honestly I don't care what people shoot. I'd have a competition against a rifle vs muzzleloader just for the fun of it. Theres a chance I may beat them at a 100yds. lol.

I was a 378weatherby owner myself once. Could I shoot it yes, was it capable of driving through an elk from butt to rear oh yeah. It just got way to exspensive to shoot. That's the only reason I let it go. I would take it back in a custom Ruger no1. Just don't need it.

Would I buy a 416rigby in a Ruger No1 for alaska hell yeah I would. Or I could just take my 375h&h. I'm not a magnum hater I own more of them now than standard calibers. And I do like the feeling of thumping power between me and say a bear.

I'll say I did enjoy the heck out of all the responses. That's what makes coming to this site so fun.

rather_be_huntin

Whether it be right, wrong or indifferent the average elk hunter doesn't do this. Jack O'Connor was an exceptional man. No offense to any of you but you're not Jack O'Connor. Me niether for that matter. I practice as much as I can but like probably nearly all of you I have a day job and a family to please and time is very valuable and sometimes scarce.

My point is in the hands of the right person I agree that the 270 is just fine for elk. But because its so close to not being ok that the average hunter isn't good enough to get the full potential out of it. The average elk hunter isn't a dead eye.

Cherokee, I borrowed my uncles old 270 last night. I did some experiments and if you load it like a muzzleloader and throw 350 grs of pyrodex down the barrel and stuff 2 bullets in it, it will penetrate the skin of a squirrel. It did take 4 shots (eight total bullets) to bring him down though. The first 3 shots were gut shots, only the forth was in the boiler room after that it only took him an hour to bleed to death. My fault for not practicing.

I also took out my pump air rifle shortly after (can't afford one of the fancy CO2 rifles.). I stalked a big bull elk and got within 50 yds. The bull had a birthmark on his chest that looked just like a bulls-eye (whoosh lucky me). Well I put a perfectly placed shot right in the center and hey wouldn't you know he dropped like a ton of bricks. (I know it was illegal but it was all in the sake of science.) You're right shot placement is everything. I did use a quality constructed pellet though and the heaviest weight they offer, a 5.25 gr. hunting tip!

Just funnin ya Cherokee.

Montana Bob

This is a first time Elk Hunter. I would suggest going with the biggest caliber you can accuratly shoot.
Ya OL Jack swears by one but how many big game animals do you think he has taken.
A first time Big game hunter should have every advantage as should we all.There is the Buck fever factor as well as the this hunter will most likely be pretty tired from the terrain.
For the first timer I would go a little bigger here.
And no I am not saying a bigger caliber should make up for poor shot placement but a little more insurance for the unknown.

338shooter

ILL hunter,
You have definately started a dicussion here that I'm not sure you expected. What you should see is that most people in here think of the 270 as the starting point for elk and it a larger gun is usually preferred. You need to be selective with your shots if you choose to use your 270. If you look at the link to the chart that was posted earlier, you'll see that the 270 has the energy to effectively kill an elk to around 160 yards with a 150 grain bullet. If you are able to shoot the gun well, and be selective enough to limit your shots to broadside and 175 yards or less, I would say you'll be fine.

The selection along with always shooting the gun well, becomes the issue though. As Montana Bob referred to, there is an "Elk Fever" associated with seeing a bull elk. I would say it is a greater nervousness than "buck fever." It is often times difficult for a first time elk hunter to be able to make a good shot in that situation. Another factor is an elk is so big compared to an Illinois whitetail, that they often times seem closer than they are, another reason to be careful with shot selection.

Most outfitters will tell a person shoot whatever you are able to shoot well. But off the record, I would argue most of outfitters would prefer people to shoot something larger than a 270 and practice with that bigger gun, even though they may not always tell their future client that.

BareBack Jack

I have read Jack O'Connor's books and in his books he was also a fan of the 30-06 and the 7x57 mauser and the 375 H&H.He shot bullets made by his freind Mr.Barnes they were a solid copper bullet with a hollow point(sound famillair)and had devistating abilitys on big game,he also used Core-Loks(he liked these for the big bears.He also on shot a elk from 600 yards away and blew it's jaw off and then shot it a few more times befor it fell,yes and it was with a 30-06.
Mr.O'Connor alos said that a 35 Rem was a capbel elk rifle out to 200 yds.
But we must not forget that his wife Ellenor shot about every thing that walked this earth whith her 7x57 Mauser,including moose and tiger and elk.
Now we know that elk are not bullet proof and a 270 will work on elk with good bullets,do I use one,no.Should everyone use one,thats not my choice.I like magnums I love my 300 Ultra,my 300 WSM and my beloved .338 win mag.It's not because my 30-06 or 7mm-08 or 25-06 won't work for elk,I just like the insurance of having full pentration at longer range.I work hard for my elk and I don't want to see him/her run off after the shot.
So if you wan't to use your .270,go right ahead.But when you get a shot at 350 yards and you don't think you have enough gun and wished you had gone magnum,think of Jack O'Connor and pratice you trigger pull.

texasaggiebowhunter

I hunted elk for the first time in my life last year in Co. I used a Sako .270 with a 165g hornady light magnum. I took a muley buck and a cow elk. Honestly it was a little to light of a gun up there. I had no problem taking either animals with the .270, but I could have taken larger animals if I would have had a larger rifle that could shoot farther. This year my wife bought me a 300 wby Im going to give it a try.

cherokee_outfitters

Most people that say it can't be done have either not hunted the elk much or have seen some really bad shooting or done some bad shooting. Even at 400yds+. I've personally killed 8 bulls with the 270 from nine yards to 450yds and have yet to shoot more than twice. One bull I shot at 450yds passed clean through the elk and the elk made it 30yds before falling over dead. One I shot at 350yds dropped like a rock. So if your trying to tell me a 270 with a good bullet is not good enough your not making an impression.

Of all the other elk I've killed with the 300mag the result was the same. With many elk being long range shots.
The muzzleloader elk was the same results.
The bow hunts results were the same.
Take all the elk clients have taken and other friends and family I've hunted with I know the forensics of what calibers and bullets do to elk.
If you can shoot you don't need all that much more of a rifle but it does feel nice to have it in your hands. But absolutely not necessary.

So with hunters not as well practiced and using substandard loads and bullets I can totally agree with you all saying that maybe they should have a bigger rifle. Not every load you can buy is a great load. There are some really good premium loads outhere. For the marksman they are ready know what is capable of doing the job. And you know what kinda shooter you are and what kinda of equipment is better for you.

Hunt with whatever you like its your choice. It boils down to shot placement no matter what you use.

justhuntitall

My dad told me when I was young boy your better off being a good hunter then a good shot. He wasnt meaning not to shoot and become better but to know your game get close so theres less mistakes. So it dont matter what you use get close be a hunter.
Iam not one for 300yd shots thats not for me to me thats deer shooting not deer hunting.


I know some of you will jump me for saying that its just the way I feel. My hats off to you guys that can kill game at 350 +yds it just takes some of the fun out of it for me.

BareBack Jack

I'm not saying the 270 is not capble to hunt elk with I know lots of guys and freinds that use them.Heck they are always joking with me cause I hunt with magnum.They say the elk I hunt must be bigger to use such a gun,other than the 270 or what ever.
It's all a personal choice on what you wan't to use and your abillity to use the tools you have.
Jack O'Connor was a great man and had the time on his hands,all he did was hunt,and he made poor shots also and took less that ehtical ones to,he was human like the rest of us.As he got older practiced better judgement and passed all his knowlege on to his readers.

Elk are not bullet proof but I have yet to see a animal with such vigor for life.They are big targets and when the adrenilin is pumping through one you have you work cut out on bringing it down.