Elkcrazy8

When we talk about class of hunter i don't beleive that it should be incorporated in the type of animal hunted, but to the extent that the anaimal is hunted. The post on the bird hunter proved that he is a different class of bird hunter, not a different class of hunter than an elk hunter such as myself. We both are the same class of hunter in relation to our extremes. I for instance have spent the night on the mountain because I was into the elk and didn't want to trek back to camp and loose them. I spent the night under a tree wrapped in polar fleece. I bow hunt in bear and cougar country with no side arm or pepper spray. I have had many encounters with these animals and know how to handle each situation. Only one cougar had to end up on my wall as a rug due to the reason that it would not leave and had very large teeth shining a little too close. I don't like to inturupt my elk hunt and kill the predators, and more times than not, I let them walk. As for the archers letting you off easy, go right on ahead and speak your peace, we all have our right to our opinion, just as we all have a right to hunt. I beleive that in my heart of hearts I am in a different class of hunters, but none less or none more than the guy that lives to bird hunt, rabbit hunt , or mouse hunt. I have hunted the nation from coast to coast and harvested almost every species that we have to offer. Never once have I paid for a guided hunt, My hunting is funded by money that I feel is wasted by most. I don't have cable TV, cell phones, pagers, fancy pickups, 4 wheelers or anything else that causes monthly payments, I pay child support on top of neccesities and make a living from fixing things. These hunts have been acomplished from hard effort and planning. It depends on where your priorities and passions lie, and what you are willing to give up to acheive them. I did this through no effort but my own. As for following a person around. When I do go hunt browns with a bow, the only reason I will have a liscensed guide with me is because it is illegal for me to do it without one, just as alot of African hunts are. I however took a person from Alaska on an elk hunt in return for my Alaskan hunt. He was successful and harvested a large 6-point bull. EKM is correct however, there are situations that one encounters in the back country that harden a person. I have done first aid on myself and partners, I have to learn how to handle situations to keep me or my partners from dying out there. I have had to get myself out from 7 miles back in, with a messed up back and concussion. I was alone on this hunt. I am willing to go to any extreme when it comes to hunting. The right to hunt has been given to us all and it is nice to see with all of the people on here that we are not alone. If a road hunt for partridge does it for you great, does that make you any less of a hunter, no. The definition is to pursue game and to reduce it to possession. If that is the way that you choose to hunt, then great. If a person holds out for a bigger animal, then great, more power to him. If a guy is happy with a small doe or calf, then great. For quality game management, all pieces of the puzzle need to be filled. In my state, the elk populations were at at all time high a couple of years ago, somethng must be working. I for one will not down anyone on their hunting preferances. One thing that I will say for sure, I have learned ALOT about the animals from my bowhunting adventures, I am now 32 and have been bowhunting for 20 years. I started shooting around the age of 5. The hunt for me is not gauged on the kill, but on the experience of the hunt. The most successful hunt I ever had, was when I had a cow elks face only one foot from mine. That was the most memorable time of my life. I would trade a thousand bulls for that experience again. I used to be a hard core white-tail hunter, the sport can be addicting, I have spent the night in the woods to keep from spreading scent on game trails. For the past few years I have spent the night in the woods turkey hunting. When the birds were located the night before, I camped out by a log and was awaken by mother natures alarm clock. This goes to show you that there is a different class of hunter in all games persued, It should not be gauged on the animal available to hunt, but should be gauged on the extent that a person goes. Good luck to all on future hunts. And I think that anyone who hunts responsibly, has class.

CalNewbie

glob3006 - To answer your question, this thread did start out as a survey. Back on the first page you'll see a message from EKM where he states that he started the survey as means to support his hypothesis that there are different classes of hunters, and that they graduate up to the bigger game and don't "fool around in deer patch". From that point the conversatio took a left turn and most of the debate has since centered on that theory.

EKM- Let me ask you a tough question - why do you care? You've invested a lot of time into this thread writing, massaging, and editing perhaps a dozen messages so far. You've also emotionally invested yourself in the discussion, so much so that you're becoming curt with those that have politely disagreed with you. Rather than address MA Jay's main point you fundamentally misinterpreted the last line of his message and summarily dismissed him.

You started this whole discussion because folks in another thread were disagreeing with your contention that you graduate up to bigger game and that somehow defines you as a hunter. You made a propositiion and so far you really haven't found any takers. You're becoming defensive of the issue to the point where you're coming off badly.

Why the need to propose a means of elevating a moose hunter above and elk hunter, an elk hunter above a deer hunter, etc? Is there some unfilled need there that makes you go to this effort to place yourself above the deer hunters? This much effort to convince a bunch of total strangers that your opinion is worth more than someone else's. It won't add any points or pounds to the bull elk. It might make the meat taste better, but that'd be strictly psychological.

Its not unknown for someone to become someone addicted to these online forums. You seem to place a great deal of value on how your advice is received here. So much so that there was a similar instance in December where you were beginning to rant a bit. http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...=1&key=fed񯖱

I'll go back to the statement in my first note on this subject. What's the problem with just putting your advice on the table and letting folks take it or leave it. Here's what I use, here's why I use it, good luck on your hunt. There's a lot I want to do in life. Being "master" of the online forum isn't even on the list.

I would like to add that I don't think anyone here, myself included, is suggesting that you're not a competent and respectable hunter. They/we are just disagreeing with your thoughts on class distinctions.

ELKampMaster

Cal,

As I read, MA Jay’s last post, I was thinking, “hey he is presenting his view point pretty darn well, we’re going to have to kick this around a bit” then came the last line clincher that made it pretty obvious there was no room for discussing much of anything, so I responded with “nothing to discuss”.

I never imagined that attempting to write well would be seen as a “defect” of some sort. You will have to look long and hard to find a post that I have written that I haven’t edited (this thread or others) --- I really don’t like to write stuff that is poorly articulated, so what followed next on your part was a bit of leap…. the freud hotline must have been burning the midnight oil….emotional investments, unfulfilled needs, value placements, appearances, and what not --- this is all pro bono right?

When I started the poll, I was indeed curious what the result would be, what with deer hunting being so endemic and entrenched, I really doubted that folks would let go of it, even for one year and even with a great trade off. I WAS pleasantly surprised by the response, it did appear to validate some sort of “moving up” preference (the numbers are still there and growing). I knew that trying to articulate it would be about like “herding cats” and I wasn’t disappointed --- it quickly took on a life of its own…. the second I suggested that the same hunter returns from a big game hunt returns a different CLASS of hunter from when he left, it was off and running.

I put forward an idea and I am soundly in the minority. Most folks disagree with me on this one. I went elk hunting the first time and came back changed. Others don’t. I’m okay with that. I’ll have to agree not to agree on this one --- not the first time, probably not the last.

Good Luck and Good Big Game Hunting,
EKM

ELKampMaster

Tally To Date:

23 Moose
3 Whitetail
3 Mulie
13 Elk

That is a lot of Alaska Airlines tickets!

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

MA Jay

EKM-

You quoted the second to last line in my post ... and responded...
Why didn't you add the line I wrote just after that? Because if you had, I think we could have come to some sort of common ground. Not that it is important to "win you over", because that is not my purpose. My purpose is that you have struck a cord in myself that I have been dealing with personally for some time. I was the hunter who traveled all over and spent a lot of money, almost $2500 in hunting licenses alone one year, trying to become what I perceived to be a better class of hunter. I surrounded myself with people that hunted everywhere, and money was no object ... at the cost of not always feeling comfortable with their choices in the field. There is a picture of a deer I shot in Iowa on the Bowhunting board, I just got it back from the taxidermist. I remember vividly the excitement of the morning I harvested him ... and I also recall how I felt when the 2 people I went to Iowa with reacted to my deer ... kind of felt sorry for me since it wasn't a true monster. 1 of those guys had stayed in that morning because it was raining. He also was heading to Pike County the following week to hunt a managed farm with prehung stands and a 140" minimum. The other guy harvested a deer a good bit larger than the deer I shot 2 days later .... I have posted the story somewhere on this board ... but he would have never recovered it if I hadn't spent a morning looking for it while he was trying for a bigger one.

My point is this .. both of those guys have trophy rooms that would WOW any hunter alive. They both pay top dollar to hunt the best property and always hunt with the best guides in camp. Last year when I convinced them to hunt a farm do-it-yourself style in Iowa .. they insisted in paying a local college kid to hang stands for them and scout for bigger deer while in stand. Based on your points above they would be a different "Class" of hunter .. and they are not. Last fall, I parted ways with these guys. I hunted with family and friends who get excited to see game, let alone a "Book" animal. I believe, and maybe I'm wrong here, that my brother is a different "Class" of hunter. He's a young kid .. has never hunted elk, or moose or bear ... but he'll hold off on shooting at a duck that is just barely out of range without thinking about it. He'll stay out till sunrise on a bloodtrail for a friend. He's still got a lot to learn about the woods and the many types of animals we'll hunt together (as do I).. but I assure you he is a better "Class" of hunter than the guys I know who have Cape Buffaloes on their wall.

I agree wholeheartedly with you here -
It's not a bad thing at all .. and those experiences CAN make a hunter more knowledgeable, and increase their personal skills. My final point is that it does not automatically make that person better though .. when you said, "IMHO, the quality/skill/class level of the hunter is defined by the what the hunter has accomplished and his ability to carry that experience forward and apply it."

the part about "his ability to carry that experience forward and apply it" hits the nail on the head for me. It's a hunter's actions in the field that are his true measure.

noway

I think what keeps these forums interesting is that we all have different ways of looking at things.
Since this one seems to have turned into a discussion about hunter classes I will chime in. I actually prefer the word "status" so I will use that instead of class.
I guess I put hunters in "status's" also. I like to look at hunting as a sport.
From that perspective I tend to judge hunters by their level of preparation for the season and their personal skill/level in the woods and weapon proficiency.
An individual who has not spent the time to get in shape or to become a good shot with his chosen weapon or learn the habits of his chosen quarry is a lower status hunter, no matter how much money he spends with guides to bring home nice animals.
Another individual who has done the work to get in shape, has spent the time at the range to become proficient with their weapon and has spent time in the field scouting the country and learning the habits of his chosen quarry is a higher status hunter.
To me the status of a hunter has nothing to do with the animals he has taken unless he took them as a result of his own skills/preparation.

Stalkman

Elk
Moose
Mulies
Whitetail

In that order

Speedgoat

I have been watching this thread develope as a bystander, watching the direction it has taken. I can relate to what everybody has stated here, and add my two cents worth. I think there is definately different classes of hunters. Not along monetary lines, nor on what different types of animals a hunter persues. As far as it relates to myself, i see it as age and or experience levels. As a young hunter, filling the limit was all important, seeing what was on the other side of the mountain, weather it was two mountains back, or four. I had those tags in my pocket, and i darn well was going to fill them before the end of the season. I did alot more walking, and covered more country along the way. As i put on some age, i learned the animals i was hunting better, their habits, where they go when it's cold, snow, dry, hunting pressure, etc. I could no longer cover four mountains a day, only one or two, but i chose those two areas better. As the years went by, it was no longer so important to fill that tag, just being out with buddies, and the camp atmoshere, and getting away from the hustle and bustle become as important as tagging an animal. Having the young hunters that were in camp be successfull brought a smile on my face. I look forward to the twighlite of my hunting career to see what changes it brings, hopefully that is still along way off, as long as i am able to stay in the hunt, i will be happy.

Carpmaster

Well, this kinda goes hand in hand with what I was asking. I think that I would have to say the moose hunt would do it for me. I have grown up un whitetail hunting as far as big game goes, but i have loved every bit of it. I think that having never been to alaska, the trip alone would be worthwhile, and also to see a member of the deer family as large as Alaska-Yukon Moose get to be would be awesome. Also I really like to fish and the fishing in Alaska is second to none from what i have read and heard. Hopefully I get the opportunity to hunt Bull Elk and Mulies also someday. The most adventure I have had away from Michigan was an Antelope hunt in Wyoming which was a great experience and a great hunt in itself being the first real trip I have been on fir Big Game.

rather_be_huntin

1. Trophy Bull Elk. Something about the bugling in the Rockies that has me hypnotized.
2. Trophy Muleys. Can't get enough of them either.
3. Trophy Bull Moose. Like to go to Alaska to take him.
4. Trophy Whitetail. Never hunted em, not much desire either.