anyone else really pissed at the ever increasing licence fees
02-02-2018, 05:53 PM
#21
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 309
First, hunting anywhere is a privilege, let alone hunting a state outside of the one you reside in. I will comment on my state, Montana. Yes, over a $1000 for NR big game combo is high, you know what else is high, state income tax, had over $21,000 withheld this past year for state income tax, true, a small portion will refunded, but still a lot of money, not even counting other state and local taxes. A NR get's by cheap in my opinion. Does NR hunting help our state economy, of course, but you can make the argument that resident hunting suffers from it, I know residents who have been denied tags to certain areas here in Montana, while a NR get's to draw a tag, sorry, to me, that is wrong. Some will say that is greedy thinking, but, who is the greedy one, those wanting to hunt where they live, or those expecting hunting opportunity in other states along with the one they call home?
02-02-2018, 07:02 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Up on the Milk River
Posts: 459
No thanks, I have worked very hard in my life....my mother raised 5 boys, worked 2 jobs, one of which was cleaning other folk's toilet's. Me and my wife live very comfortable, thankfully. Paying those taxes is not an "if"....we pay those, and do a fair amount of giving here in Montana where we live. I think there is a lot to be said for being part of your community and state, hit's a nerve when people just want to come and take what we have, then complain about cost...
02-04-2018, 07:18 AM
#24
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Montana
Posts: 550
HOWEVER, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, and bison are draw tags with chances of drawing some of those tags of less than 1/2 of 1%. Although I was lucky enough to have drawn all of those tags, except bison, 30 or more years ago, I have applied for a mtn goat tag for 40 straight years without drawing.
I got flamed on another thread for posting that Wyoming has priced me out of hunting in their state, as have the other western states including my native state of Colorado (where gas was 19 cents a gallon when I was 16 and started driving there).
I am not pissed at the increasing non-resident license fees, I just refuse to pay them when I can hunt any of those animals in my home state for only a fraction of the cost.
02-04-2018, 07:48 AM
#25
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,429
And that is a sensible way to look at the situation rather than want the states to be controlled on how much they may charge a none resident. The same tack I take, if I don;t think the juice is worth the squeeze, I don't squeegee.
02-05-2018, 04:26 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
If I wanted to live by a beach, I'd be living on a state that has a coastline. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd live somewhere the economy was booming.
I'd rather live in/near the mountains and away from the crowds and "conveniences," which is why I'm in Wyoming. I endure the hazards and risks, and I enjoy the benefits.
When I was an avid snowmobiler, I always found it interesting that the nonresidents who'd pour in from Colorado and the flatland states would scream about a $30 ORV permit (there was no resident or nonresident tag), while pulling $35K in snowmobiles with a fancy $60K diesel crew-cab truck. Poor them. Hunters aren't much different.
If you want cheap licenses, go live where you hunt.
I'd rather live in/near the mountains and away from the crowds and "conveniences," which is why I'm in Wyoming. I endure the hazards and risks, and I enjoy the benefits.
When I was an avid snowmobiler, I always found it interesting that the nonresidents who'd pour in from Colorado and the flatland states would scream about a $30 ORV permit (there was no resident or nonresident tag), while pulling $35K in snowmobiles with a fancy $60K diesel crew-cab truck. Poor them. Hunters aren't much different.
If you want cheap licenses, go live where you hunt.
02-05-2018, 04:55 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
I would feel a little better about it if NRs didn't have to pay for most of those DOWs new trucks, gas, programs, etc. In Colorado, NRs have a "cost of living" price increase EVERY year. If the same thing happed to residents, we wouldn't really have an argument, but it doesn't
02-06-2018, 03:52 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
So, I guess I'm a bit curious now as to what you believe DOW is supposed to do? Sit in the office and sell cheap licenses?
Here's a thought you might consider. Your license fee may reflect the cost nonresidents are generally willing to bear? Yes, there are nonresidents out there who DIY exclusively - offset by those who hire an "outfitter" who'll charge them $5K to shoot a mediocre buck on Farmer Fred's pasture. Funny how I don't hear nonresidents complain about the quality of those kinds of hunts, though?
To some degree, hunting's an industry. Most states (and especially those whose DOWs are funded by license fees and not the state's general fund) recognize that there's not a lot of money to be made going after the residents with higher license fees. They count on us for boots on the ground and selling more licenses to us instead and go after the nonresidents who may only buy one license in their lifetime in their state-to-state quests.
Don't feel too badly, it happens to us residents when we go somewhere else as nonresidents, too.
Here's a thought you might consider. Your license fee may reflect the cost nonresidents are generally willing to bear? Yes, there are nonresidents out there who DIY exclusively - offset by those who hire an "outfitter" who'll charge them $5K to shoot a mediocre buck on Farmer Fred's pasture. Funny how I don't hear nonresidents complain about the quality of those kinds of hunts, though?
To some degree, hunting's an industry. Most states (and especially those whose DOWs are funded by license fees and not the state's general fund) recognize that there's not a lot of money to be made going after the residents with higher license fees. They count on us for boots on the ground and selling more licenses to us instead and go after the nonresidents who may only buy one license in their lifetime in their state-to-state quests.
Don't feel too badly, it happens to us residents when we go somewhere else as nonresidents, too.
02-06-2018, 03:59 AM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
How do you figure? I am a 5th generation CO native that now lives in TX and I know for a fact the CO NR licenses do not increase in price every year. So please take a moment and explain the "cost of living" comment?
In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag.
Bottom line is that the game depts in every state work for the residents of those states and not for the residents of other states. Those residents do and should take precedence over non-residents. After all, here in TX they sure do don't they?
In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag.
Bottom line is that the game depts in every state work for the residents of those states and not for the residents of other states. Those residents do and should take precedence over non-residents. After all, here in TX they sure do don't they?
02-06-2018, 06:45 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
[QUOTE=flags;4327832]How do you figure? I am a 5th generation CO native that now lives in TX and I know for a fact the CO NR licenses do not increase in price every year. So please take a moment and explain the "cost of living" comment?QUOTE
Resident license fees can not be raised in CO without an act of the legislature because that would be a "tax increase". But NRs are exempt from that statute, so they passed a reg to allow the DOW the right to increase our fees every year tied to a 'cost of living" price index. In the rare year where prices on everything are flat, or dip then they don't raise the NR prices, but that is rare indeed. And that might have happened once since the change? So you are technically correct, but in reality they raise prices essentially every year.
Didn't the DOW make a concerted effort to raise resident prices in 2016 that failed? No matter, they just keep raising them on us.
QUOTE: In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag. QUOTE
That income tax they pay does nothing for the animals of Colorado. So what you are saying is because Colorado is overtaxed already due to stupid liberal lawmakers, they can make NRs pay for their game departments? Sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Bottom line is they do it because they can and will continue to squeeze us for as much as we will stand. I can personally afford to pay anything they charge, so I guess I should be glad that others are being priced out of going. I guess I just look at it differently.
Resident license fees can not be raised in CO without an act of the legislature because that would be a "tax increase". But NRs are exempt from that statute, so they passed a reg to allow the DOW the right to increase our fees every year tied to a 'cost of living" price index. In the rare year where prices on everything are flat, or dip then they don't raise the NR prices, but that is rare indeed. And that might have happened once since the change? So you are technically correct, but in reality they raise prices essentially every year.
Didn't the DOW make a concerted effort to raise resident prices in 2016 that failed? No matter, they just keep raising them on us.
QUOTE: In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag. QUOTE
That income tax they pay does nothing for the animals of Colorado. So what you are saying is because Colorado is overtaxed already due to stupid liberal lawmakers, they can make NRs pay for their game departments? Sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Bottom line is they do it because they can and will continue to squeeze us for as much as we will stand. I can personally afford to pay anything they charge, so I guess I should be glad that others are being priced out of going. I guess I just look at it differently.
Last edited by txhunter58; 02-06-2018 at 06:49 PM.