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Choosing a rifle caliber

Old 10-24-2017, 04:02 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by [B
softdown[/B];4319052]Not recommending this, just relating what I found. The .45-70 is a famous old load that was frequently used for the American bison. There are still some very old .45-70's around. I think they may be called "trapdoors" or something like that. The old guns are not recommended for modern higher velocity loads.

The cases are quite large and will easily accommodate much more than the 70 grains of powder that created the .45-70 moniker. This is called pressure packing in reloading circles.....if the bullet packs the powder as the bullet is seated. Being experimental with a solid, robust single shot .45-70 rifle, I created some loads that were downright fearsome. Managed to put some .45 lead bullets through 1/4" of steel plate. My .308 loads hardly dented that particular steel plate.

Do not do this unless you believe you are qualified and you have a robust single shot rifle such as the Ruger .45-70 for example.

Great brush load I think. Certainly leaves a large hole. I wish I would have hung unto mine.

Do not exceed manufacturer recommendations unless you are OK with possibly significant risk.


Oldtimr---All that post was a bunch of things that you read somewhere, did you ever use a 45-70? I use mine all the time, I have taken bison, hogs and deer. I don't know what you were trying to get across but it failed. Making a recommendation for something you have little or no experience with is not helpful
I've been rereading the 2 posts above which were originally posted in that order, one right after the other. OT, I believe softdown's emboldened statements above indicate that he both used to own a 45-70, created reloads for it and shot it, through 1/4" steel plates no less. He said it makes a large hole and is a great brush gun. and he even said he wishes he would have hung on to his (45-70).

Aside from it being just about impossible for any of us to restrict ourselves to owning just 1 gun (what a nightmare), I think both of us would likely recommend another caliber for a more general purpose gun for hunting the lower 48. I will always have a 45-70 and someday hope to take bison and bear with it but my 270 has worked quite well for deer, black bear and coyotes.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:11 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by ahamburg
Iím going to purchase a rifle, and I know how cliche this may sound, but I want one that can do it all. I want to be able to hunt anything from a hog up to a bear. From what Iíve seen, a .308 can do this, but any other suggestions? Also, I do know, any bullet will really do the trick as long as you place it in the right spot.
Any thing a 308 can do, a 30-06 can do 100 yards further and 200 fps harder.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:01 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Jack Ryan
Any thing a 308 can do, a 30-06 can do 100 yards further and 200 fps harder.
Yup. About 8% more velocity for about 15% more recoil.

The real questions are: Will the deer ever know the difference? Will your shoulder?

Last edited by seattlesetters; 10-26-2017 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:40 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by seattlesetters
Yup. About 8% more velocity for about 15% more recoil.

The real questions are: Will the deer ever know the difference? Will your shoulder?
Mine won't.

My deer won't either. They'll be dead before they hit the ground.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:02 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Jack Ryan
Mine won't.

My deer won't either. They'll be dead before they hit the ground.
Precisely.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No animal will ever know the terminal ballistic difference because none exists.

Someoneís shoulder could very well know the difference, however.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:23 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by seattlesetters
Precisely.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No animal will ever know the terminal ballistic difference because none exists.

Someone’s shoulder could very well know the difference, however.
Well, then "someone" should put a pillow on their shoulder if it's that fragile. If 15% is make or break on a guy's shoulder he should probably drop down to a 30 carbine or something. I imagine the difference between a fully loaded rifle and the last shot might get in to the danger zone. But everyone needs to decide that for their self I suppose.

The guy asked, I answered. That's all. It's nothing to me what he buys. No emotional investment here.

Last edited by Jack Ryan; 10-29-2017 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:09 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by seattlesetters
Someone’s shoulder could very well know the difference, however.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

According to Chuck Hawes, who is a widely accepted expert on firearms and ammo, the felt recoil energy of a 308 Win with a 150 gr bullet is 15.8 foot pounds. In a 30-06 that goes all the way up to 17.6 foot pounds. A whopping difference of 1.8 foot pounds of energy. I offer the humble opinion that if 1.8 foot pounds of energy affects you that much you should spend some time in the weight room making your shoulder stronger.

Bottom line is that anything a 308 can do a 30-06 can do just a little better. And you can literally get 30-06 ammo anywhere in the world.

As always, feel free to disagree.

Last edited by flags; 10-29-2017 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Added url
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by flags
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

According to Chuck Hawes, who is a widely accepted expert on firearms and ammo, the felt recoil energy of a 308 Win with a 150 gr bullet is 15.8 foot pounds. In a 30-06 that goes all the way up to 17.6 foot pounds. A whopping difference of 1.8 foot pounds of energy. I offer the humble opinion that if 1.8 foot pounds of energy affects you that much you should spend some time in the weight room making your shoulder stronger.

Bottom line is that anything a 308 can do a 30-06 can do just a little better. And you can literally get 30-06 ammo anywhere in the world.

As always, feel free to disagree.
I do agree that the .30-06 offers a bit more velocity.....about 8% with most loads. I also agree that 15% more recoil doesn't seem like much. What I don't agree with is that the .30-06 can do anything "just a little bit better" than the .308 Win. Here's why:

The very same Chuck Hawks also states that 15 ft lbs of recoil is about the maximum recoil most shooters can be comfortable with and that anything over 20 ft lbs causes most shooters to develop a flinch. With this in mind, that 15% more recoil can indeed mean something, as the .308 sits right on the threshold of the comfort level, while the extra recoil of the .30-06 puts it pretty clearly over the comfort threshold and even starts inching it towards the flinch level.

That is why I don't agree that it does it "better" than the .308 Win. Because of where this extra recoil falls on the Chuck Hawks recoil scale, I do believe that 15% can make a difference to quite a few shooters, which means perhaps for 8% less velocity, the .308 might be "just a little bit better" for enough folks that there is no clear-cut better choice between the two. Just one better for some, the other better for others.

I've always found it interesting that these two cartridges, always and forever linked and compared to each other, just happen to be the two that fall right on the recoil threshold lines.
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:31 PM
  #39  
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A SIMs recoil pad will take a 30-06 down below 15 ft lbs of felt recoil. Or a 308 down to about a 243 perceived recoil

For one who has had 2 contisone shots in my neck, recoil is a BIG issue to me. For others, not so much.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:51 PM
  #40  
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It was mentioned above. 7mm-08 is an amazing cartridge. I have taken Bear, Elk, no problem. Usually 1 shot.

Recoil is minimal. I have a bad shoulder, sore neck. The 7mm-08 doesn't bother me at all.

I use 140gr. & I'm finding out they have 150's and 158's. I haven't tried them out yet, but very happy with the 140 partitions.

I may use it on Pronghorns. But I'll go down to 120's. Still need to see how flat it shoots with 120's.
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