Big Game Drawings
 

Hello everyone,
I am brand new to the website. Just a tad about me, I started hunting last year at 26 years old. I've always loved the outdoors. Well last year I became addicted to hunting like I'm sure most on here. Can't beat the thrill of the hunt or just enjoying the time outside. Anyway, I have been big into white tail hunting. Not to jump the gun but I am very interested in bigger game perferibbly elk or moose. I see that there are some over the counter options yet I see a lot of mixed reviews of late. I also see some drawings options. If you guys can give me any advice on what you think would be best I will greatly appreciate it. Are drawings worth it now? Should I apply knowing I most likely won't get in? Are drawings the way to go? Etc... thank you guys

Happy Hunting,
OhioHunter

"There is no such thing as a bad day hunting"

Colorado's deadline is usually beginning of April. You can apply for just preference points instead of a tag that you won't draw. PP usually cost around $45 or so.

Some good OTC units, but trophy areas require PPs. As far as moose, go to Canada or AK. Will take years to draw a lower 48 tag.

Best of luck!

Welcome Ohio :)

In your opinion is Colorado the best state for elk?

Welcome aboard Ohio.


Its never too early to put in for drawings, and the more you put in for the better.


In many states you earn or get a preference or bonus point each year that you do not draw a tag. In some of those states, only the people with the most preference points draw a tag.


I basically only put in for the drawings in my home state of Montana. I have the maximum number of bonus points for every species in the drawings. I have applied every year, and I haven't drawn a moose tag since 1988 or a bighorn ram tag since 1983 or a mountain goat tag since 1978.

LOL, I feel your pain. I'm 47 and beginning to think I'm gonna have to go north if I ever want to hunt moose. I would like to enoy a mount for a few years before I soccer style the bucket across the great beyond, lol.

Money talk
 

Being from Ohio, i have literally 0 knowledge about these drawings. So say I put in for tags in Montana and Colorado and other states.... say I don't get drawn... is that money gone or do you get returns?

You have to pay for the point, and every state is different on how they charge you.

No, far from it. I only mention it because I hunt it every year and am familiar with it. I will say Colorado has some very nice Mule Deer and accumulating preference points there would be a good idea.

Each state is different. You have to check the regulations of each state. Like jeepkid posted, there is a fee for the point. There also may be a drawing fee. And some states require you to purchase a basic hunting license (not refundable) before you can apply for special licenses.


@TwoBear, by my math, I have been applying unsuccessfully every year for a mountain goat tag in my home state of Montana since you were 9 years old.

If I remember right, Nevada you must buy a license and a PP, ends up being over $100 and the mule deer tags take at least 7 years for a non-resident to draw...

I'm not sure what it is here in California for a non-resident, but there's nothing here worth trying to draw for anyway unless you are a resident.

If you have to buy out of state tags and licenses how/why in the world would people enter these drawings. It would cost thousands just to get a tag. There has to be something Im missing here

Welcome to the forum. I'm from Trumbull county in north east ohio. Where abouts are you from....


In short, you need to go to some state websites and do some reading. Wyoming, Colorado, and I'm sure other states allow you to buy a preference point only. This year I bought preference points only for mule deer and antelope in Wyoming. Next year I'll begin buying points in Colorado for elk... Doing it this way allows you to accumulate points, so that you can be drawn in future years for the hunt you want.... Some hunts are OTC, some hunts are drawn with just a few points, and some trophy areas require allot of points.... you'll need to do allot of reading to figure out all that....


My suggestion to you, being a new hunter, is put in for some points somewhere for something that you're interested in hunting. And plan on hunting there a few years out. In the meantime, continue to get whitetail experience. And practice with your gear. Shots out west can be allot farther than what you'll typically encounter in Ohio. Allot can be learned here in Ohio chasing whitetail, turkey, coyote and even small game. Learn how to hunt, add experience, and when you have the points you need for bigger stuff, then you'll be ready to go.


-Jake

Transitioning from whitetail to western game is eye opening. First off, those western states are BIG, so asking if a state is "good" is hard, some of the state may be great while other areas aren't.


You need to figure out what you want, then where you want to go, then pick a state or states to check into. You can elk hunt OTC in ID for example. My wife and I mulie/pronghorn hunted this year in WY with no points, but elk in that area takes lots of points.


Each state is different, but you don't have to buy a license to get a point , at least in my limited experience. You also get a license/tag per animal, so you can buy an elk point and get a deer tag for example.

OhioHunter,

Take it from a seasoned veteran of the big game lotteries across the West & NewEngland.......BEWARE.......I’ve been playing the game for over 20 years. It started out great and I drew many slammer tags back when the states were ethical, but since then it’s morphing into another game. A game where attorneys (professional liars & thieves), politicians and even state game departments have morphed it into more or less Ponzi schemes to separate you from your money. They get you to buy in, then move the goal posts in the middle of the game. Only 2 of 12 states I’ve applied in during the last 22 years have not cheapened my hard earned points………and neither is out West (Iowa & New Hampshire). Every other one has either lowered the NR quota, converted tags to outfitter welfare or even worse…….auction, changed the rules to screw me. Hell, Maine destroyed my points by later peddling all the bonus points anyone wants for $55/6 packs. What a complete joke. They do it because they can. If you tried what they do in private industry you’d be thrown in jail for classic bait-n-switch business practices. This is a FACT not an opinion. Some of the states still have decent systems in place, but don’t buy in with the expectation that your money invested won’t be raped. New Mexico has crappy odds since outfitter welfare, but at least they don’t deceive you because they don’t sell points. Idaho is another, so you can’t get burned in those states. Colorado & Wyoming have the best VALUE right now, but no doubt they will devalue points at some point in time. Both have done it in the past and had more legislation proposed since then. In any case if you do buy in anywhere, target units that take 3-5 points, no more. Otherwise you will be walking around with a big target on your back with unscrupulous politicians eyeing your every move. You will have more to lose with any screwing rule “changes”.

There are some states you should avoid at any cost. They are Oregon & Utah. Both for different reasons. They offer very little to the ground floor investor. If you study the odds, you will figure this out quickly. And Utah is the most corrupt state in the country. Even their F&G Dept. is in bed with special interest group SFW. Nevada & Arizona are pricey if you can afford. Oh and BTW Arizona was the latest state to screw invested hunters like me (17 points) by trashing our points from basically preference to bonus, vastly extending our waits to beyond my retirement age. If I’d known what they had in store I’d have been burning points on a totally different unit the last 15 years and hunted 3 times. Instead me and the 400 investors ahead of me got totally screwed. So that is why I say if you buy in anywhere, don’t let your points get above 3-5.

Again, these are all FACTS, not opinions. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a green horn to the game, someone who profits from the game, or just plain ignorant/delusional.

Zim,I hear you on states changing the rules in the middle of the stream.

Istarted applying for bighorn sheep here in Montana in 1975 or 76. Backthen Montana had a preference point system. I was unsuccessful each yearand accumulated a preference point every year until about 1983 when Montana FWPannounced that they were going to scrap their preference point system.

SoI checked the previous year’s drawing statistics and found a unit where with mypoints, I had a good chance of drawing a tag. I drew a tag, and shota nice ram on a DIY solo hunt.

Thenfrom 1983 to 2001 Montana did not have any kind of preference system. In2001 they instituted a bonus point system. Everyone that applies is inthe drawing, but for each bonus point, you get your name in the drawing thatnumber of additional times. Five bonus points and your name is in thedrawing one plus five additional times, just like everyone else that has fivepoints.

Thenin response to complaints by sportsmen that the bonus point system wasn’treally giving an advantage to hunters with more bonus points, it was onlymaking the numbers bigger, FWP said they will now square our bonus pints. So if you apply with 10 bonus points, theywill square your points and your name will be put into the drawing one plus 100additional times. Just like everyoneelse that has 10 bonus points.

Eachstate has their own system. I believePREFERENCE points favor those who apply the longest, and BONUS points giveEVERYONE a chance. But you won’t draw ifyou don’t apply, and the drawings will not get any easier.

PA has what they call a point system, it really isn't a point system. Every time you apply, the application fee is 5 dollars you get a point. However, there is no time that a certain number of points will equate to a license. What happens is if you apply for 10 years your name goes in the drawing 10 times. I have applied for an elk license for 14 years, I have accrued 14 points because I have applied for 14 years, so next year when I apply my name will go in the pot 15 times. It is a pizz poor system. You may also apply just for a point if you know you will not be able to hunt during the season.

What you are referring to is commonly called a Bonus Point system. There really isn't any system that doesn't have as many or more negatives that positives. IMHO the only fair system is a fully random draw for whatever tags are available

That was a very good overall synopsis of the point systems in the various states! IMHO there is not a single state with any type of a point system that is fair to every person that would like to apply. Most only reward the person who got in on the ground floor when tags for a certain animal like sheep are very limited. Many get into those systems with no thought that they will never draw a tag in their lifetime and the state selling the system certainly isn't going to tell them because all they want is the money!

that is how idaho does it. some are lucky and draw every year or two some (like me )are not and average a draw tag every 5-10 years. it is possible to put in ones entire life and never get a tag, though I have yet to meet that unlucky schmuck.

we recently looked into going point system but idahoans rejected it.

We have a decent system here in California, I think anyway.

I'll use deer for example. We have "premium", "restricted" and "general" zones. You put in for a Premium area for your First Choice and either a restricted or general for your Second/Third Choice. If you are unsuccessful on your First Choice then you will get a Preference Point. Right now the max points for deer is 14, unless you started in the beginning then you will never "max out". I drew a Premium tag when 8 points was the Max so now I'm way behind. Luckily, we don't have many areas that require Max points, but a bunch of very good areas around the 4-8 point mark, so most people can and do draw a very good area every couple years. My Dad currently has Max points and is waiting to draw a late season hunt that only has 25 tags (same area I drew a few years ago), eventually he will draw it since less and less people have Max points. But it's not worth it for him to use his points on a less then Max area.

We also have a Party System, they will take every hunters points in a group and average them. Then either everyone gets a tag or no one get a tag.

Now as far as sheep goes, it's pointless for anyone to continue buying a point. There's thousands of applicants and only a handful of tags every year. It would take at least 40 years to draw a sheep tag if you started putting in right now.