Remington X Mark Pro trigger
 

First post so be easy if this has already been covered. I am looking to buy a Remington 700 BDL in .30-06. I think it is one of the prettiest rifles on the market, along with accurate, and American made. I take safety when hunting as serious as you do, and I am wondering what Remington did to "fix" the problem with the x mark pro trigger. I would rather not have to replace with a Timney or Jewell if I thought the problem was corrected with the new gun. $125 for piece of mind is pretty cheap, but that also buys a few boxes of ammo. Just looking for opinions.

If you really want a Remington just because it looks nice and is made in the USA, then IMHO spend the extra money and put the aftermarket trigger in it and be done with it. Many people that appear to be in the know say the triggers are junk and should be replaced. To the best of my knowledge Remington is cleaning the ones that they think were not put together properly because of what they say is "excess bonding agent", but the basic design has not been changed. The recall involves all of those triggers made up until April of 2014. Most guys that know guns well say that by the time you buy a Remington and get done with it to make it a heck of a good gun about all you have left is the action that it came with! There are many Remington lovers out there and I would imagine you'll hear from one or more of them on this thread.

I've shot Remintons Model 700s for years. My late father and my brother also shot or in the case of my brother still do shoot them. I've carried the same 7mm Mag since I was 13 and I'm 52 now. That rifle has been all over the world and has taken a huge amount of game. Nobody I personally know that shoots Remington has ever had an issue with the triggers.

Now, I'm not saying there haven't been some issues with some of the triggers but when you factor in the millions of Remingtons in the field, you really don't hear about that many issues. But the lawyers got involved so it was cheaper and easier for Remington to offer to fix what in my opinion has never been a problem.

I've personally never had a "problem" with a Rem trigger other than they just suck. Functionally never had an issue but I've never left one in long enough to have an issue I guess. I've had a long standing with Timney triggers and Geissele. Dropped in a few Jewell's too.

Sorry flags, but this is not the Walker trigger we're talking about here! When a company issues almost a complete recall on a firearm because of a trigger issue like they have on the one the OP is asking about it isn't about lawyers! I also have to disagree with your: "you don't hear many issues on Remingtons". Any hunting website you go on where the older Remington Walker triggers are being discussed has numerous people that have had them go off and many swear they have never done anything to them as far as adjustments. Poor cleaning exacerbates the situation, but the engineer who designed them stated they needed changing almost right from the get go and wanted a trigger block installed to prevent problems and for a lousy 5 1/2 cents per gun to make the change the company wouldn't do it. The complaints Remington had regarding the old Walker trigger is probably over 20,000 that they actually know about through consumer complaints and then you can add in thousands of others that happen to read about the problem and say they had a similar malfunction and were just being made aware of it when they read other people talking about it on the internet. This X Mark Pro recall involves all Remington firearms with the X Mark Pro trigger in them that were built from the start of production in about 2006 or 2007 though April of last year and it's not because of lawsuits where people were injured or died. It's due to poor quality control they have finally admitted to that is causing the rifles to fire similar to the older Walker trigger, but for an entirely different reason that I mentioned earlier. One malfunction IMHO is one too many in a firearm and thousands upon thousands of the same problem that have been happening for many years is absolutely ridiculous when a company doesn't own up to it over many decades. Then when they "sort of" admit to a problem and change them the new one is also defective and it takes them another 7 or 8 years to admit that and issue a recall. That totally sucks no matter what kind of a spin you want to put on it!

Some of the X Mark Pro triggers left the factory with some excess gunk that needed cleaning but they are otherwise good and safe triggers. There is nothing wrong with the design of the new trigger.

A (very) few people will tell you that there is a potential "one in a million" problem with the older "Walker" style Remington trigger. That is an issue that is unproven and the source of many internet rumors and arguments. Most, if not all, of the problems seem to be caused by untrained guys tinkering with the triggers or just plain old bad gun handling. Remington is starting to provide recall relief for those that want their older style triggers changed.

A few product bashers can always be counted upon to chime in whenever any given product is mentioned (Ford vs. Chevy, etc.). I have quite a few Remington rifles along with other brands, and believe that you have made a good choice.

***I'll "bash" a product any day of the week no matter what it is or what the name of the manufacturer is when things being discussed have been documented in court cases. We're talking about possible problems that can lead to injuries and deaths because the maker is only looking at the bottom line and doesn't give a rat's butt about the people that are buying the product. For anyone to say that just because they, their friends, or whomever they happen to know have never had a problem, as happens all the time when this Remington situation is being discussed, and intimate that it's not out there is really a shame. It can also cause those people reading it to believe it and maybe be the next in line for an injury or death. Everyone should at least have an expert in that particular product fully inspect it before it is loaded again just like Remington says in their recall notice! IMHO a person should also do that if they have an older one with the Walker trigger in it. I'd rather be safe than sorry and that's why I'm also so adamant on this issue and you can call it bashing or whatever else you'd like to.

Yet another internet firestorm!

Please link a valid court case that shows actual proof of the defective trigger (not just a few memos). Lower court and appellate if applicable. Every time I have read one of these cases there have been a lot of unproven claims.

I have witnessed more than one accidental firings involving both Ruger and Remington rifles. In those events someone clearly had their finger on the trigger as they released the safety. In two of those instances the shooter swears that they did not touch the trigger but others present (including me) saw them do it.

Anything is possible, and anything can fail. Any manufacturer that makes millions of products has probably made some with a defect of some type. Gun safety could not be more important but I have seen nothing to make me believe that all of the talk about the Walker trigger is anything of substance.

Do it yourself, as I'm done debating this kind of garbage and you can do a search just as easy as I have over the years. When Remington has had dozens of court cases like they have regarding the Walker triggers and settled over 20 of them for millions of dollars when their lawyers knew they were going to lose the case is all I need to know! You have your opinion based on what you stated and I have mine based on thousands of complaints of the same type that no other firearm in history has had at those levels. No other firearm in the USA, including other manufacturers like Ruger and Winchester that have produced millions of firearms, has a poor history like the Remingtons we're talking about. Even though they have produced millions of them doesn't excuse all the ones that have had defects and that seems to be the common comment made to justify the problem.

Agree to disagree.

question?
the Remington models
715,720,721,722,725,600,660,600 Mohawk,788,78,700,XR100, and model 7 all share the same trigger, why does everyone just bitch about the 700?
RR

Heck if I know RR. I never liked the feel of Rem triggers myself. On ANY of their models. Matter of fact, about the only thing I do like about Rem rifles is the actions. Built quite a few off a Rem action but the triggers NEVER stayed.

Because they jump on the band wagon. Like I said, I've never had an issue with one and neither has anyone else that I know that shoots them. But, when you have millions of an item in the field you're going to have some lemons. It happens with everything that has ever been made. Matter of fact the only accidental discharge I've ever seen in the field was a Win Model 70. Never seen one with a Remington, Ruger, Weatherby, Savage or CZ.

Top my old friend, we've known each other a long time but on this we are going top have to agree to disagree. I'm well aware you your dislike of the Remington trigger, but I can state without a bit of doubt that I have never seen an issue with them. My late father put so many rounds through his 7mm Mag that he replaced the barrel twice and the only trigger on that rifle was the factory trigger. I now own his rifle and wouldn't hesitate to use it anywhere on earth with complete confidence.

Peace.

got jewels, timneys, and professionaly tuned factory Remington triggers, not much difference IMO
RR

Welcome to the forum Kshorn1, we had pages and pages of debate last winter in the gun section over the Rem trigger. Go to the gun section and turn back a few pages and read the thread on the Rem trigger recall, if you want lots of info. My opinion is the "misfires" are a combination of either, residue/oil build up, reckless firearm handling, unqualified gun smithing and mostly lawyers looking for work.

I forgot, I have kept ONE for a bit, was one that a buddy of mine (Marine that worked for 15 years in the Precision Weapons section as a smith) worked the trigger on it. Only Rem trigger I ever felt that was passable. His exact words to me were "Damn your a picky SOB!" Which I guess I am when it comes to some things on my rifles and handguns. The trigger being about the pickiest thing. Think I kept that trigger for a few months before I dropped in a worked Jewell.

Hate to say it, but every single injury or death that occurred from these so called "miss-fires" were the product of failing to adhere to the GOLDEN rule of firearms safety, NEVER POINT YOUR FIREARM AT ANYTHING YOU AREN'T GOING TO KILL That's plain and simple. If they hadn't been miss-handling the firearm in the first place, when and IF it did miss-fire then NO ONE would have gotten hurt. Always treat your firearm as if it were loaded and ready to fire and keep it pointed in a safe direction.

super hunt 54---Nobody, including myself, has ever argued with your statement on proper gun handling. Let's leave that out and strictly discuss the rifles themselves. What I have a problem with is that as early as December 3, 1946, with the guns still in the testing stage, lead engineer Merle “Mike” Walker, who later received a patent for the 700 series trigger, wrote a memo warning of a “theoretical unsafe condition” involving the gun’s safety that is supposed to keep the gun from firing accidentally and he, therefore, asked that a trigger block be installed to eliminate the problem. Four months later in an April 9, 1947 memo entitled “M/721 Pilot Line Inspection,”Test Engineer Wayne Leek wrote: “This situation can be very dangerous from a safety and functional point of view.” Among other things, Leek stated it was “possible to fire the gun by pushing the safety to the ‘off’ position.” That same malfunction, in which the gun fires when the safety is turned off, is cited in many of the customer complaints that persist to this day. These guys were talking about rifles that had never left the factory or been touched by customers and are the designer and engineer intricately involved with the original mechanism which came to be known as the Walker "Fire Control" trigger. Top brass in other memos ruled that the rifles would be produced without the trigger block because of cost overruns even though we're only talking about 5 1/2 cents per rifle and the reason was that their calculations were such that the percentage of rifles where that would occur would be very minimal! Now people continue to argue over decades of many accidents that none of this is happening other than by customer error, etc. That is why I get so upset when people won't look at the facts stated in these memos that are right out of the Remington files when they discuss this situation.

Uncle, I seem to recall 3 or 4 videos that were out a couple years back that showed this malfunction and it was CLEARLY evident that their fingers were NOT on the trigger. I seem to remember one being a pump shotgun that fired off as soon as the bolt locked. Don't remember if that was a Rem or not though. But I do remember 2 or 3 Rem 700's that was showing this issue. The guys had their hand on the grip and pushed the safety off with a finger. Impossible to touch the trigger that way.

And I do recall all these memo's that came out (And I don't see why you deem them as unimportant) and in direct correlation to them coming out Rem folded camp and payed out a few million. They got caught with hands in the cookie jar and got a couple fingers cut off for it.

I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon for any cause that is unclear. Hell, as I stated earlier, I've never liked Rem triggers but I've never PERSONALLY had one fail like that but I'm also not one to bury my head in the sand and say "well I aint seen it so it must not have happened" either. Granted I'm older than gunpowder and have lived through a LOT of advancements in firearms as well as some stupidity in production lines but that in no way means I've seen and done all there is.

Who's to say that the deaths and injuries were directly linked to the triggers??? all the supposed failures combined are less than 1% of guns produced... that in some circles is a pretty good safety record!!!! OMG the sky is falling.... if you were to really look at many of the incidents it was piss poor gn handling and not the gun it's self..... I mean who points a rifle at someone and pulls the trigger!!??????? and yes that was cited in more than one instance

That may be the lamest post I've ever seen on the net regarding this subject! Good night!!!

Well Finn, I do believe I as well as most everyone else has stated that very same fact as far as the injuries and death goes. Bad firearms handling. But to say that there was no problem with the trigger group because the people that got hurt from it were being stupid is still burying your head in the sand. There was, and still is from all reports, a problem with SOME Remington trigger groups.

Would you say that 1% of cars being produced with faulty brakes was an acceptable percentage? Bet you wouldn't if it was YOUR family in a car with those brakes! Your math forgot to add one simple variable, human life. Even with the best firearms handling, an accidental discharge can result in injury or death. Pointing your weapon towards the ground while unloading, if it went off, a round could strike a rock under the dirt and ricochet into someone. Pointing it up and it could travel somewhere a long way off and kill someone. Crap happens. To say ANY percentage is acceptable when it comes to firearms safety is unacceptable. So I will backtrack a bit on my OWN statement previously after a little more thought and say that MOST LIKELY most of the deaths and injuries were due to improper firearms handling. Don't know the numbers on how many were direct line of fire vs. indirect caused by ricochet.

+1

Got my Remington Model 700 SPS DM in .243 Win. tuned by my gunsmith...........never a problem either ??


But I will say that I absolutely love my JP Enterprise on my AR-15 (Frankenstein) !!! :barmy:

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.1_ezt.php

Have 14 700,a model 7,721,725,788. All have triggers tuned by a gunsmith. Know a lot of people with remingtons and no one I personally know has no problems with their remingtons either. The new Winchester pump shotgun goes off when you pump it. That might be the shotgun someone on this forum mentioned.
http://www.winchesterguns.com/librar...ail.asp?id=709

And that is why Winchester IMMEDIATELY issued a recall on them!!!