2016 Elk Hunt Help!
 

Hey all!

I am starting to dig into planning an elk hunt for my dad and I in 2016. We are average hunters from Ohio. We both have had success hunting elk in New Mexico through a friend and outfitter, but are interested in exploring other options. I have always had my heart set on shooting an elk in Colorado with my bow.

I was wondering if any of you could offer advice on finding a trustworthy outfitter? (maybe you have had experience with one already?) Budget wise, my absolute maximum I am willing to spend is $5000 total/ person.

I JUST REALLY DO NOT WANT TO GET BURNED!

Any help will be much appreciated!

THANKS!!

Nick

Why use an outfitter? If you're wanting to hunt elk in CO in 2016 then you have plenty of time to plan a DIY hunt. Any elk taken on your own will have much more meaning to you than one taken with an outfitter. Rather than put $5K into an outfitter's pocket, do the hunt on your own and keep a large chunk of that $$$ for another hunt.

CO has a huge elk herd and millions upon millions of acres of public land to hunt on. My suggestion is to go to the DOW website and begin to research elk hunting. They have a huge amount of info on there. You can even contact the game biologists for areas you're interested in and get their scoop on things. Once you narrow down an area, come back to this site and I'm sure that several of the members, including myself, will pony up some info for you.

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't even thought about it because of my inexperience with elk hunting, but you have my attention! I will absolutely start doing some research!

Im so pumped!!!

Thanks again for the quick feedback! And also for your service if I am seeing your profile photo correctly! I am deployed with the army right now.

Have a good one!

Nick

It's not about getting burned, it's about opportunity. In Colorado hunting public land quality management unit or OTC units nothing is controlled. Not the weather, the start of the rut, hunting pressure or actual shooting scenario's. You may hire the cheapest outfitter on public land and have a great hunt or you may hire a quality management outfitter and get "burned" or vice versa. Bowhunting elk on public lands one should always keep in mind this one main point. It's not about the rack on the back of the truck heading home it's about all the things that led up to that chance to take the shot.

I've had hunters show up and we all got burned that week. No elk, digging them out of the timber like ticks. And the very next week be covered up in elk where they were supposed to be in the first place. These animals are not whitetails they just don't use habitat that way.

Now saying all that. Elk on larger private land plots that are not harassed by everyone and the landowner actually knows what he's doing as far as pressure, will not leave property because the elk know whats on the other side of that fence. I'm not saying private land is where to hunt but if your worried about getting burned then being able to control your part of the hunt and how much pressure is put on the animal is where I'd first start looking. If it's about the hunt itself then DIY.

For me if I do not draw my muzzle loader tag then it will be OTC archery elk. I've shot enough elk that any bull elk with a bow is still a trophy. It is a damn tough hunt to consistently kill bull elk with a bow year after year. But what a fun game to play.

And that is what I love about bowhunting!! The game is addicting!

I agree with what you're saying about the hunt over the trophy. I experienced that firsthand in 2012 in NM for elk with a rifle. We had a guide on private land, but out there, all the land around us was private too. We chased this herd every day and they stayed one step ahead of us the whole week.

We sat down for dinner the evening before our last day, and I looked at my dad and our guide and said if we don't see an elk tomorrow, I will still go home happy. We had an amazing week up to that point with so much excitement. I had never really felt a satisfaction like that before.

The next morning at 0900, I shot my first bull elk! Best experience of my life! Not because of the kill, but getting to hunt like that with my dad and our guide (our friend). The 5x6 was just a bonus in my mind!

Would also suggest since you are pretty close to buy into the elk lottery in Kentucky. That way if you or your dad gets the chance you are alot closer to Ky to plan and scout then out west.

How is it you can tell how much meaning an elk will have to somebody? Have you ever been on an outfitted hunt? I have a fella that hunts with us every year, he does so because he builds bows and knives after work as sells them to pay for his hunt. How many people hire a mechanic, contractor, eat out etc? They should all be "doing it on their own" to get more satisfaction? Some people find great satisfaction in being successful enough to pay for an outfitted hunt, whether they are building bows or owning a business. I am a perfectly capable elk hunter, but if I hunt out of state I will definitely hire an outfitter. I don't find satisfaction in cooking, cleaning, cutting wood, and setting up camp when I only have a week to hunt, and many guys are just like me. The OP had a question about finding a Colorado outfitter, not opinions from the anti-outfitting crowd.

What kind of hunt are you looking for? Guided, semi-guided, drop camp? I don't think your budget is unreasonable at all. I would start be determining what kind of hunt you are after, and even what kind of animal you are after. You are doing the right thing beginning early as most of the quality outfits will be booked up or close to it by the end of the year.

Nick,
If you somehow do not go in 2016 at least apply to get a preference point in 2016. Too bad you did not start planning early enough to get a point for 2015. One preference point is not a lot but it may make a difference in where (and with whom) you hunt. There are elk in many places in Colorado and the best places usually require preference points to hunt.

Of course you feel that way. You're an outfitter. Flags opinion is no less valuable than yours.

I personally would suggest using a guide/outfitter as well. For the simple reason that you don't know the area, you can't scout, and your lack of familiarity with the area would seriously hinder the hunt itself. I hunt out of state all the time. I am very familiar with many public lands in the Colorado region and I do SOMETIMES still use an outfitter/guide for the simple reason that I can't get in there soon enough to do what homework needs to be done to get archery close on an Elk.

That "millions upon millions" acres of public land is the primary reason you should use a guide/outfitter for your FIRST hunt in Colorado. Phone calls to biologists or web visits to DOW can't replace boots on the ground that the reputable guides in Colorado can provide. And there are MANY reputable guides there that are well within your price range. I do agree that a DIY hunt can be more satisfying at times, but the OP seems to have very little experience with the type of hunt he is going for. Get a few guided hunts under his belt then strike out on his own would be my suggestion.

Face it, you're an outfitter and you want to be one of the guys that get that $5K he has rather than allowing him to keep it. You have a financial stake in keeping people from hunting on their own. For what it is worth, I have hunted something like 13 states and have never hired an outfitter outside of the places I mentioned where it was required to do so and I never will. I don't care if every outfitter in the land goes bankrupt since I consider them little better than game pimps.

That's carrying things a bit far don't you think Flags? Many guides/outfitters provide a very valuable service to people that have little to no experience or just simply because of having to make a living they just don't have the time to get out in the country to do the work needed to be done to have a successful hunt. Not everyone is able to DIY for MANY reasons. Most guides/outfitters work VERY hard throughout the year to make it possible for people that just don't have the time needed. Not everyone get's 3 months off in the summer like you do (you are a teacher right) to be able to scout locations and such. Hell I am semi retired and I don't have the time to go everywhere I hunt as I SHOULD do. But I hunt all over the country so I can't scout everywhere. If I have a hunt scheduled that I won't be able to do the proper scouting and such, I make a few phone calls and find a good reputable guide that knows the area I have set up to help me out some. As I said previously, boots on the ground beats "Ma Bell" every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

flags got it absolutely right

The answer is simple. First do all the scouting you can do from maps. It's not hard to find areas that elk will be if you know what to look for. That part can be learned from home too. Lots of info is available now.

Then when you get here you have some idea where you want to go. It's a 9 day hunt. Spend the first 3-4 days scouting, and then go hunt.

I did this with my dad in the 50's, and the maps in those days weren't close to what's available now. Even so, we got an elk the first year.

It can be done, but it takes some effort. The last thing i'd ever do is let someone else do my hunt. How can there be any satisfaction in that?

Nope, I don't think it is carrying things a bit far. I grew up in CO and can remember when you could just knock on doors and get onto some really good property. We had long seasons and could buy tags over the counter. Then, about 25 years ago the outfitters began to cry and moan. They leased up any property they could so the average hunter couldn't get on it. They petitioned the DOW to make more but shorter seasons.

We used to have a separate archery season, a separate black powder season, a deer only season, an elk only season and a combined deer/elk season. Every one of those seasons were at least 3 week long and hunters could hunt different seasons. I used to hunt the separate deer season and then hunt the separate elk season and that gave me about 6 weeks of hunting time. The outfitters didn't like that because they couldn't book hunts for the later parts of the season so they drove a petition to increase the seasons and shorten them. Some of the seasons are only 5 days long now! That means that many resident hunters that can't take time off work only get to hunt a single weekend.

Remember, it isn't the resident hunters the outfitters care about. It is the non-residents that book with them so the outfitters don't give a rip if the residents can hunt at all. All the outfitters care about is the $$$. That is why they have tried to make the states issue more non-resident tags since they know their $$$ comes from out of state. And like all pimps, the bottom line is all they care about! Have you ever tried to get an outfitter to let you on a piece of property they control just to take a doe deer or a cow elk? They'll tell you to get lost despite the fact none of their hunters will even have a doe or cow tag! Outfitters want to control hunting so they can profit off of it and it is the commercialization of wildlife that will spell the death of hunting in America.

Yeah, I'm a teacher but I sure don't get 3 months off. I teach NJROTC on an 11 month contract. That means if I'm lucky I get 4 weeks off between school years and at least 2 of those weeks are taken up with summer drill meets or leadership academies for the students. So I'm not exactly swimming in time off and I still have never used an outfitter and I never will. If I have to depend on an outfitter to get game I'll hang up my guns for good.

Besides did you bother reading the OP's reply to me? He is active duty Army which means he gets 30 days paid vacation a year. Since we're talking about 2016 that means he can save up a lot of days on the books which means he can do a long hunt and probably even spend 4 or 5 days before the hunt starts just scouting. He can also check into hunting the Air Force Acadamy or Fort Carson as well since he is military.

My biggest gripe with outfitters are the ones who hunt on public land, but seem to think they own whatever area they're hunting because they have a paying customer. They'll actually try to get you to leave, and give the impression they own the land.

They'll also move right in on your area if they think it's any good.

Fly fishing guides do the same thing on our rivers. Common courtesy seems to be a thing of the past.

Like I said Pete, all they care about is the $$$ and they don't give a rip if you or I can hunt or fish since we aren't paying them. I once had an outfitter go as far as digging up a road into public land over by Silt after I set up an elk camp. We followed backhoe tracks right to the lodge he hunted out of and had to get the Garfield County Sheriff and the Forest Service involved just so we could get our gear, including 2 vehicles out through the ranch the outfitter was hunting. Seems he didn't want us hunting public land next to the ranch because he didn't want us shooting "his" elk!

So what you are saying Flags, is send a rookie hunter into a place he has never been, to get archery close on an animal he has hunted only once and that was with rifle and a guide? Does that sound even remotely intelligent to you? I mean really? I was hunting Elk while you where still in diapers Flags and I don't consider using a guide/outfitter "pimping" in the least. Nor do I consider it laziness. I consider it intelligent use of a service. Now granted I don't use them very often anymore simply because I know most the areas I hunt and I have a pretty good idea of what the Elk tend to do in those areas. But sending someone who has no experience into the wilds is illogical at best. Using your deformed logic, I guess it would be "cheating" if he had a friend that lived in Colorado and had Elk on his property and allowed him to come hunt there. And what about if he lands in on the rut? You think he has experience calling? Like knowing when to shut down or when to issue a challenge bugle? What I am suggesting is to use a service to help him learn, gain some experience, and have a greater possibility of success so he will WANT to stay with it and take that knowledge to strike out on his own. You grew up In Colorado Flags so you know the areas well. He grew up, I'm assuming, in Ohio with absolutely no clue about Elk hunting. We all had to learn somehow Flags. We weren't born with the knowledge. Using a guide/outfitter service will help him learn.

Muley, it's not particularly "letting someone else do your hunt" but it's getting help learning which I feel the OP needs. It's just my opinion buddy. Now do I feel that some guides/outfitters do TOO much and the "hunter" is nothing more than a trigger man? Of course there are many out there like that. They are usually the more expensive ones too. You will find that the more reasonably priced outfitters that hunt primarily on public lands are in fact some of the most ethical and hard working guides out there. They GUIDE not DO everything under the sun for you. They help you get into areas that they have tracked and scouted that a map won't show you or anyone else. I have yet to run across an Elk reading a map :s1: and while they can be somewhat anticipated, they are by no means predictable. Again, boots on the ground is unbeatable.

You 2 hit that up while I was writing this, Muley, I haven't had the bad experience with the few guides I have used in Colorado like you are talking about. The 3 guys I have used have been 100% agreeable with anyone we encountered in the field. But that's just my limited experience with them.

Read my post again. I didn't say all outfitters. I know there's some good ones, but the bad ones tend to stick in your memory.

I agree it's difficult for a new elk hunter to come to Colorado to do a DIY hunt. That's ok though. Nobody says you have to shoot an elk the first time. It's part of the learning curve. Elk hunting is hard as it should be. It makes it all the more rewarding when you do get an elk.

One thing I can guarantee you. If he does it himself he'll save at least $5000 to put towards the next hunt. ;)


Here's a new service that will help any new elk hunter. Not your average map, but a much more specific map for just the elk hunter.

http://startmyhunt.com/

hell yes and you should RELISH the challenge and opportunity !

are you afraid you can't set up your own tent? build your own fire, cook your own meal? get up on your own in the morning, find your own animal to shoot?



I've been there and done that - and while I see one side of this outfitting thing but I see no reason to use an outfitter unless you're physically unable to hunt

Hunting is about challenge, challenging yourself. If you pay someone to do all the work for you well duh - ANYONE can pay a great outfitter $15,000 and hunt a private NM ranch for a 370" bull

what kind of story would you tell ? hell you didn't do anything but follow someone and do what you're told and pull the trigger

Hope we're not driving the OP away. If you do nothing else Nick, check out the link I posted.

And Ranger, that is the difference between a lot of guides. As I posted previously (something I guess you failed to read) there are those guide services/outfitters that do everything but pull the trigger and I 100% can't stand those. THOSE are the ones that are $10,000 per person. The ones in his price range are guides that pretty much "help out" with experience, calling, locations, basically teachers. A GUIDE. Yes true hunting is about challenge. You against the senses of an animal and mother nature. Very few people in this world can say they are 100% self taught. Most all had someone to teach them our much loved tradition. I for one had 3 generations of highly seasoned, well traveled hunters to teach me from the time I had walking down pat. But there are many new hunters coming into our hunting grounds with no one to teach them. While yes, figuring things out for yourself is a wonderful teacher, to a lot of our young people today it is more of a deterrent. If they don't "catch on" fast they get bored or dejected. I'm in no way implying that the OP Nick is in fact like this, I have no way of knowing. I just know how most kids today are. Raised 5 of them. All in the woods as soon as I could get them out there.

Muley (Pete) That link looks promising. The guy seems to know his stuff. May just take a bit of a closer gander at it later.

Yes, he does. I plan to buy one of his maps for my unit to see how his info stacks up against mine. I talked to him about it, and he likes the idea.

I'm also going to get a map of an OTC unit near me that i've never hunted. Sort of simulating what a new elk hunter would go through, and see how much his map helps me get into elk. I'm going to dread hunting an OTC unit, but it will be an interesting experiment.

Eh, OTC units aren't that bad. Hunted several of them for years. Granted you have to deal with some morons in the field. But you have to do that pretty much everywhere nowadays. I tend to hunt as far away from anyone else as I can possibly get. But I'm getting up there in years and 5-10 mile hike in's over rough terrain just aint in the cards for me much anymore. Plus Elk aren't like whitetail in that they tend to migrate and such whereas whitetail will go as thick and deep as they can get when hunting season starts.

Are you admitting that reading isn't your strong suit? Here's a little challenge: Go back and show me exactly where I said what you're claiming. I'll bet you $10K you can't do it. Maybe you missed the following:

So, just where did I say head west and just start casting around looking for an elk to stick with an arrow? I explicitly told him where to begin looking and even suggested who he could ask and then I volunteered to provide him with specifics as to how I would be willing to help him. By the way, I've made the exact same offer to many other members but I do ask that they begin looking for info on their own first since so much is readily available. By the way, please be so good as to explain just how all those non-resident camps I see in CO with elk hanging manage to do that if they all need to be led by the hand by an outfitter? I know a lot, and I mean a lot of non-residents that come to CO every year and take elk, deer and even bear without a guide. Explain that to me!

I seriously doubt that. I'm 52 right now and since you claim to be "semi-retired" I doubt you're in your late 60s or early 70s. But even if you are, what does that matter? I've personally taken about 25 elk and have been in on the taking of over 100 others. Can you match that total? Somehow, I don't think you can.

Now, just what ax are you trying to grind? Or are you just being foolish for the sake of looking foolish?

I don't have not problem with anyone using an outfitter. They have just as much right to make money as any profession. Just like any profession out there, there are great ones and terrible ones.

That said you might consider a compromise of sorts. A good unguided, DIY private land trespass hunt can be had for about 1/2 of your max. Helps in a lot of ways (especially not risking hunting in a crowd) and you still get the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

Other then the pissing contest going on, keep all options open. I have been looking into the same thing for me and my father and DIY, or an Outfitter is still in the cards. Its up to you, you know what you like and you know what you will enjoy, so get to reading and researching and make the best decision for yourself and your father. Ask any question you want as well. Someone here will be kind enough to answer.

Yes, some OTC units aren't too bad. Unfortunately, the one I have to hunt is unit 55 which is just over Cottonwood Pass from me. I've gotten too old to camp anymore, so I have to be able to get up early, and drive to hunting areas every morning.

Unit 55 is pretty crowded in rifle seasons, and it has a a ton of ATV trails which are pretty full during rifle seasons. Actually, every season. I'll be using my muzzleloader for the rifle season.

It will be a challenge, but no more than for some new elk hunter going to that unit. So, maybe I can pass on some info after the hunt for new hunters. Not so much where to hunt that unit, but how I went about finding elk that will hopefully be useful for any unit.

This is definitely stepping out of my comfort zone. I've hunted the same unit for 6 decades, and know it pretty well. I have 25-30 hot spots in it to hunt. The majority of them i'll have complete solitude, and won't see any other hunters. Compare this to going to a unit i've never hunted, and don't even plan to scout it until the hunt starts will be quite different.

Yes Flags the internet has great and wonderful information on it and there are some great people here that would be more than willing to share knowledge. But the fact is, that is in NO way a REPLACEMENT for having someone IN THE FIELD with a rookie that actually KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. You highlighted the point I was making yourself. I wasn't saying uninformed, I was saying INEXPERIENCED. Maybe you should focus a little bit harder on reading yourself Flags and stop trying to push your personal prejudices against Outfitters so hard. It clouds your judgment. And by the way, I am probably one of those non residents you have seen with Elk hanging in camp without an outfitter. But I HAVE EXPERIENCE which has been my point the whole friggin time. Not sending them out uninformed but send them out for the first time or 2 with a guide that knows what to do and can help them get on bulls and can TEACH them. Why would you fight so hard against a rookie having someone in the field with them to help them learn Flags? Just because that teacher is getting paid a fee? You work for free Flags? I sure don't! Now granted I take rookie hunters under the wing all the time. Take them on hog hunts, deer hunts, even a few Elk trips. But that's not what Nick was asking for. He was asking for information to aid in his putting together a trip and for some information on guides and outfitters. Simple and too the point. I'll let you slide on that 10k you owe me because your own highlighted point suggests exactly what I said. :wave:

Ok y'all.
 

Haha hey guys! Let's calm it down a bit! I was asking for people's opinions to help with my planning process! I don't need opinions of other people's opinions!

I do appreciate all the feedback though from everyone! I am looking into all possible options.

On the one hand, I am a go-getter and would love to attempt an elk kill 100% DIY with my bow. On the other hand, I have my dad to plan for as well. His age complicates things a little bit! While I am in my prime and would have no issue wandering around in with wilderness somewhere for a couple weeks, my dad is interested in having a little more help.

One thing I am looking into now is kind of a middle ground. Self-guided hunt through an outfitter. I can get the scouting report I would be unable to have through the outfitter along with lodging, food, and game processing (all of which are important to my dad) and still have the DIY element that I desire.

I am still looking!! And definitely still reading all the advice on here!

Keep it together guys! We are all on the same team here!

Thanks for the support,

Nick

in 1993 I asked a guy I worked with what the roughest, toughest wilderness in Colorado was to hunt - he told me a place in the Weminuche that fit that description.

I never had been mule deer or elk hunting - I spent the better part of 3 weeks, by myself, solo backpacking and I killed a muley doe and a 5x5 elk.

It was hard and tough and I learned so much through failure .... had I paid someone to take me in, point me where the elk were, pack the meat and camp out etc?

I'd have not learned nearly as much. This 5x5 dink bull was more of an accomplishment than a buddy of mine who killed a 370 bull with a rifle on an Indian Reservation.

Nick - this was a backpack hunt ... Dad was 65 at the time IIRC ... we killed this bull maybe 5 miles from the trailhead

Nick........Getting an outfitter for your dad, and going off on your own to do a DIY hunt is a plan. Not sure how to work this out with an outfitter. You'd still be in camp using that part of the hunt, but only your dad would be guided for the actual hunt.

It's something to look into.

Okay so what I am gathering is you want an outfitter service. There are several out there. One that comes to mind is Western Colorado Outfitters. They do semi and unguided drop in camps. Basically they just do the camp thing and you do the hunt thing. Looked them up on the web, here's the page. I haven't personally used them but a couple of my old timer friends have. http://www.westerncoloradooutfitters...nd-drop-camps/ Fairly cheap rates (less than half of your budget) and in pretty good zones as well.

B.S. You really do have a problem with reading don't you? Let me refresh your memory. You wrote: "So what you are saying Flags, is send a rookie hunter into a place he has never been, to get archery close on an animal he has hunted only once and that was with rifle and a guide?"

I never told the OP that. I said he had plenty of time to plan a DIY hunt if he wants to and I showed him where he could get a lot of info and then after he had that info and had narrowed his choices down to let some of us know so we could give him some info. You do understand that CO is a pretty big place and that nobody can give him any info until he narrows it down some don't you? I never told him to just bail off and try to shoot an elk. What I told him to do was do a little research on his own. Information never killed anyone I know but it sure has scared a lot of people.

At to calling the OP inexperienced, I don't read his posts that way. As a matter of fact the OP stated:
Note that they hunt in Ohio (probably for whitetails) and both have hunted elk. That means they have some experience and can use that experience to research a DIY hunt if they choose to. Remember I didn't tell him to throw caution to the wind and go on a DIY hunt, I told him he should research it. I would think that someone with some hunting under their belt would be able to do that if they choose. Maybe you don't, but I do especially based on the OP's response to me that said:

That shows he is at least open to it. In other words, he now has some of that dreaded info! You do know it is up to him to decide which advice is good and not you right? Isn't this his thread? You seem to have an issue with the info and advice I gave him but he sure as heck didn't. If he chooses not to hunt DIY, then that is his choice and not mine or yours but at least he now has the info rather than just a contact # for a game pimp that will happily take his $5K. Deal with it.

Now, feel free to send the $10K to a charity of your choice because you still haven't proven your ignorant claim.

I feel the hot breath of a mod showing up soon.

The hunt I was researching was basically the outfitter saying hey, I want you to hunt this area today... GO! Haha and all meals and lodging was taken care of. That way it could be just my dad and I which would be very meaningful to both of us.

THANKS! Ill give them a look!!

As this is my thread, I feel like I must interject in the brawl!

I appreciate both of the opinions! From a third person perspective, both have valid points, and have been helpful. Even despite the bickering, I still have gleamed some great information! Hahahaha you both should just let it rest, or start another topic of your own though specifically about your argument. Certainly no hard feelings here towards either of you as you both have been very helpful!

Thanks again for the feedback!


And as for my hunting experience level, I have been chasing whitetails and turkey for almost 20 years now (started hunting at 5) so my father and I have that baseline skill required to hunt anything. Beyond that, I have been hunting Alaska where I am stationed for a couple years, so I am learning that dynamic as well.

My desire for a nice lodge and a little help is mainly per my dad's request. I understand where he is coming from completely! He is not as young as he used to be, and is no longer as crazy as I am! haha and this trip is a once every few years kinda trip for us, so we just want to make sure we get it right.

Again, I appreciate you all chipping in to help!!