im think about trying to go rifle elk hunting next year and was looking for all the advise i can get on where to go and what would be better to do a DIY or a fully guided hunt not rly wanting to spend 5k on a guided hunt to shoot a small bull would like for it to be 250 plus so which state guide public land unit any input would be great

I suggest you take a minute and look at the thread entitled: Elk Hunt Recommendation. It is located just 2 or 3 threads below this one.

I've never hired an outfitter and I've taken about 25 elk, But then, I grew up in elk country in CO. Your situation isn't the same as mine when it comes to elk hunting. I quit hunting bulls a long time ago and only target the ladies now since meat is more important than antlers as far as I am concerned.

"Statistically speaking" the odds of an easterner going to CO on a DIY hunt and killing a trophy 6x6 in the vast majority of public areas out there aren't worth betting on. (But I DIDN'T tell you that secret, MANY in the CO economy depend on "Great White Hunters from the East" to come out west each fall with their billfolds!) Just go to enjoy the experience of hunting out west, if you kill fine, if you don't fine. Just remember on a DIY hunt, once the animal is down the fun is OVER and heart attack, back breaking work has just began!

But if you feel like you MUST kill a decent 6x6 (and 250 is scraping the barrel there, more like 280+) then you'll be time and money ahead by booking with a known, experienced outfitter/guide in known trophy producing areas... and at that $5k won't cut the mustard. That'll buy you the hunt but that just "gets you legal". That doesn't include trophy fees if any & in some places like NM if you don't draw then your outfitter can buy tag from a landowner but those are now running about $2k-$5k+ in the prime areas. Oh and don't forget airfare unless you are going to spend 2 days on the road out there and 2 days back (Hope the weather stays good or you could be snowed in once you get there! How much work can you afford to miss and still keep your boss happy and your wife living with you?) If you DO connect then taxidermy and shipping fees are gonna getcha as well, you want that elk meat at home well what about the processing fees and shipping? Then there's the case of tipping, the guides, cooks and maids will eat up another G in a heartbeat. Suddenly your $5k hunt has turned into a $10k-$12k+ endeavor. BUT if you have a gorgeous bull on the wall to show for it then hey, that extra $5k-$10k just MIGHT be worth it huh?

And then remember if you are hunting wild elk, there's NO guarantee in elk hunting other than blisters on your feet, broken equipment and lots of time a broken heart!

It's pricy. $4000 for the hunt. Tips $$$$. $1000 air fare. $400 rent a car. Butchering, getting meat home, trophy mounting.

It's $10K for an easterner.

I was lucky, I didn't get an elk, so I only spent $5k.

Not just any public land will do, if you want to DIY then and have really good chances its going to be tough. You need to be in a good unit, pre-scouted, etc. Its hard to DIY if you aren't able to get extra time off in advance to figure out the unit your hunting, see if their are trophy bulls in the area, etc. Plus many of the really good units can take years to get into. You need to know the terrain, elk movements/locations, etc in advance or your hunting time is really going to increase and your chances lower. Spending 10k on a hunt will give you much better chances and make it much more likely to succeed. Unless your a resident of the state your hunting its hard to get pre-scouting in, etc. A hunting outfitter isn't going to have you shoot a small bull as it reflects badly on them. No one wants to book with an outfitter that is shooting babies, people book with those consistently shooting monsters. My top choice for an Elk hunt would be Colorado.

It really boils down to two options.

Option#1

Hire a less expensive outfitter and possibly kill a elk, maybe even a really nice elk. Maybe you hunt with the same cheaper outfitter for a few years, maybe you kill a nice bull or maybe you don't. Just maybe you'll spend $15,000 on mediocre bulls or maybe you kill a really nice bull and call it done.

Hire a expensive private land outfitter for the $15,000 and kill a really nice bull or maybe you don't kill one at all (have heard this rumor before). But maybe your dream elk is one and done and you can be like the rest of us and just hunt them DIY because you like it.

Option #2

You go totally DIY. Maybe you do your research and get lucky on finding your spot the first year out and kill a really nice bull. Then over the next lifetime of hunting you have a spot that normally takes elk. Or you can be like some that hunt year after year and nothing.

Check this out. Colorado on a good year averages 11% to 17% across the board on elk tags sold vs number of elk harvested. That's not that good of odds no matter who you are. You really have to put in your work in elk hunting and forget about pipe dreams.

Not to brag on myself but I have averaged above 60% on personal elk harvest over 30 years that includes bow, muzzle loader and rifle. And here's what it takes to get it done.

BE IN SHAPE.
Know the Area like the back of your hand.
Know how the Elk use the area and where they are in different seasons, weather, and pressure.
Know your limits and throw the limits out the window.
Be willing to let everything walk if you only want a big bull.
Kill the first legal bull you see if you want to be successful year after year.
Be able to shoot 500 yards with a rifle, 150 yards with a muzzle loader and 50 yards with a bow. Also be able to make quick shots in the trees and offhand shots at reasonable ranges.
Be able to climb that 300 yards and control your breathing to make that 20 second shot window. If you get that 20 second window at all.
Know your equipment.
Simple things like turn your scope down when leaving the open and going into the trees.
Know when it's time to stop stalking the elk and let them make their move.

I've ran em down, rode them down and harassed elk all my life with clients and by myself.

I hunt alone when doing it for myself. And when the time comes I have played the shot process over and over in my mind. Mentally and Physically you have to be ready. To be a lifetime successful elk hunter you have to get mean dog mad.

Or.......... you can just find that special little canyon with a nice little trail going through it where the elk travel from one spot to the next sit down break out the thermos enjoy the scenery and wait it out. This is what I recommend because most don't have the time to learn about elk hunting doing it a one week out of the year. 5 to 7 days in one spot watching has a lot higher success rate than running all over trying to find an elk. Chances are something will walk right by you.

You didn't mention if you would be on your own or bringing fellow hunters with you. DIY elk hunting for a rookie entirely on your own -- without any hunting companions -- has a particularly low probability of success and an increased probability of bad stuff happening without anyone at hand to help you out.

If you had one or more companions, you might look into a "drop camp." This would involve paying an outfitter to drop you off in a pre-established elk camp in elk country. The outfitter would swing by occasionally (discuss with the outfitter how often and when) and pack-out your elk for you. This is a critical and important service for a novice elk hunter. Additionally, it is the nature of elk hunting that you are better off in a substantial tent that you can heat with a wood burning stove (again, discuss with the outfitter the wood situation -- do they cut it, do you cut it, how do you get the wood cutting/splitting done). This would at least get you somewhere where you could possibly see and shoot an elk. The cost of a drop camp may be about $1,500 per hunter. They outfitter may have some minimum number of hunters per drop camp. You are not guided and the outfitter does not provide you with horses, the outfitter does not field dress or cut-up your elk for you; the outfitter does not provide food and does not provide a cook to cook your food for you. That is how he is able to offer you a cheaper price than a fully outfitted/guided hunt.

Shooting trophy quality elk is not a cheap or easy proposition. Most elk hunters -- including me -- are happy to be in the beautiful high country hearing elk bugle (possibly, but not too often during rifle seasons) and shooting any elk. Elk is GREAT eating. I made an elk roast last night. It knocked everyone's socks off, and I'm not kidding. It beats whitetail hands down. Being in the high country in October, hiking in the real mountains, carrying a solid rifle on your shoulder, seeing elk tracks, talking about what you saw, smelled, and heard in your canvas wall tent at night, hearing the wood snap and crackle in the wood stove, your boots off, your stocking feet pointed towards the stove, drinking a cup of warm coffee or hot chocolate. It is a pretty good time, and the quality -- in my book -- is not measured by the size of antlers. I took a cow this year, and my satisfaction was greater than the satisfaction I had taking my first bull 3x4 or my second bull 5x5.

I note that you didn't exclude the possibility of paying for the fully-guided, fully-outfitted elk hunt. While expensive, there are some advantages to this if you can manage to pay for it. Just because your first elk hunt would be a guided/outfitted hunt wouldn't mean that your second, third, etc., elk hunt would have to be. Think of this first elk hunt as a training/learning opportunity. If you pay attention and ask questions, you will learn a lot on this first hunt. What kind of country do elk prefer. How do you cut an elk up. What works. What doesn't work. What kind of an animal is an elk. How do you heat a tent. How do you get fire wood. How do you get drinking water. What kind of camp arrangements work. How do you move in the mountains in October? All kinds of things that I can't think of right off hand.

If you learned enough on this trip, you could buy yourself an outfit and go DIY in the future. Buy a canvas wall tent. Buy a wood stove. Buy a kitchen set up (can be simple, often DIY hunters are eating simply because they don't cook breakfast in the morning, as they are getting on the trails and don't cook dinner at night because it is late and they are tired. Maybe at night they are warming up canned soup of frozen chili brought from home.). Buy lanterns. You will need elk hunting companions for this DIY situation. So be thinking of who of your friends can do this kind of future DIY hunt with you. It generally takes 2 weeks of time -- time driving, time setting up camp, time hunting, time tearing down camp, and time driving back home. Which of your friends would make that time commitment.

When you get to the point of fully DIY -- and I suppose this is true even when going fully guided/fully outfitted -- you will need to pick a place to hunt. This means both the game management unit (GMU) you will hunt, the season, and where specifically within that GMU you plan to hunt. Some of the considerations are in early seasons, the elk are up high so don't apply in an area where there is no high country. In late seasons the elk are low, and low usually means private land and very, very expensive fees paid to land owners to hunt elk on their land. Other considerations are how long does it take to draw a permit -- 1 year, 5 years, 20 years? This information can be gleaned from reading the data on the state fish and game web sites or, in some cases, getting a CD from the state that contains that data. Be advised that Colorado has the most elk and is the easiest to draw in. If you are looking to hunt trophies, probably other states are better bets. At the same time, trophy units usually take many years to draw in -- you have to apply year after year and accumulate preference points. If you are into trophies, maybe you could apply in a trophy state and accumulate points while applying in Colorado for easy draw units and hunting for non-trophy elk, such as a cow elk.

Hunting anything is about the experience. I have never taken an Elk ( have only hunted them twice ), but have taken a Pronghorn and a Mulie with my bow. Not trophies, but great DIY hunts. I have hired an outfitter once and hunted Whitetail in WYoming. I did get P&Y buck with my bow on that trip, but while fun, it was not as satisfying as my Mulie and Pronghorn. My Elk hunts that I came up empty handed were much more memorable. The point is, you can do it cheaper by yourself and whether or not you get anything at all will be secondary.