Nonresident hunters rights
 

I have watched over the years. It seem that the nonresident hunter is losing his right and they is no one to stand up for the nonresident hunter.
The Lobbyist, outfitters are make the rules. The rules say they are no tags in this unit for you!! But will let you apply for this (one) only.
But yet, we as nonresident supply a larger % of their annual budget.

Is there an organization that represents the nonresident hunter?

If there is an organization I would be glad to donate, in the interest of the nonresident hunter. As nonresidents we need to buy our own lobbyist that represents the nonresident hunter is the only way changes will be made.

For instants (the old )to hunt the wilderness Wyoming you must use an outfitter.
Also that can not apply for this tag, in most states 10 % in few units.

In most cases those tags are issued are used on federal lands money.

There's a large %of the nonresidents Hunter's out there that would like the opportunity to hunt some of these units. We all want the same thing the chance to hunt.

A disjointed rant if ever I read one.

I suggest you hire a very expensive attorney and sue the state of Wyoming.
And while you are at it go after CO, MT, UT, NM, ID, AZ, NV. Oops...... Forgot AK.

Apologies if I've left anyone out.

That should keep you busy.

Who is preventing you from hunting these areas? Tags are available and the game is there but as a non-resident you will pay more for the privilege of hunting it. There is no such thing as a right to hunt other states. It is a privilege, not a right.

Are you aware that every state charges a non-resident much more than what it charges a resident to hunt? For instance, you're from Arkansas and Arkansas is really well known for hunting waterfowl, especially mallards in flooded timber. Let's do a comparison of resident vs non-resident costs for that.

A Resident Wildlife Conservation License which would allow you to hunt ducks is $10.50. For a non-resident to hunt ducks the cheapest license it would be the Nonresident 5-Day Small Game Hunting License at a cost of $55.00. Then we have to toss in the Arkansas waterfowl stamp which costs a resident $7.00 but costs a non-resident $35.00. See the difference in costs? You can hunt a flock of ducks for $17.50 and it would cost me $90.00 to hunt that same flock of birds. Every state does this. if you don't believe me, go to the individual state's websites and look at the license fees.

By the way, the courts have ruled that the game in the individual states belongs to, and is the responsibility of, the states. Therefore, the residents of those states (whom the game depts. work for) enjoy the benefit of resident costs vice non-resident cost. You, as a resident of Arkansas do not have the right to tell WY or MT, or CO, or NY, or FL how to manage their wildlife. It is what it is, deal with it.

No. You pay more but residents of the state contribute a larger amount. simple math

Exactly
If bowedark would like to pay my property taxes I'd be happy to get him a landowner tag. I won't hold my breath waiting for an offer on that one.

You know what? I'd like to hunt my unit too. You know, where I live!! I can only hunt mule deer every 2-3 years, because NR hunters come here and take 35-40% of the tags. Same thing with bull elk.

Don't give me that line that you pay more to hunt here either. All the local hunters I know would gladly pay more for the tags if they could hunt every year. I know I would.

I'd like to see all the residents get their tags first, and whatever is left over they can sell to NR hunters.

It's bull that I can hunt my own backyard, because some hunter cross the country took my tag.

You want to hunt out west? Move here.

There's a simple solution: If you don't like your present hunting situation, then change it. Take some responsibility - don't blame it on someone or something else. Call the moving company Monday morning.

We all make choices. I choose to live where people aren't stacked on top of each other, where the jobs typically don't pay as much, where my kid has access to only one four-year university (meaning, my checkbook has one non-resident university tuition option - I just finished paying for one out-of-state degree, the $25,000 extra it cost would've bought a lot of tags, wouldn't it?), where I have to drive for two hours to get to a major airport, where medical specialists are also hours away, where the wind blows almost constantly, where real estate and gas generally cost less, and where it just so happens that my hunting tags don't cost a lot and I have lots of public land to chase game on.

Nothing's stopping you but your own preference not to live here. Buck up.

I know lots of nonresident hunters who don't share your sentiment. They don't show up lording over how much they "contribute to the economy" - rather, how "glad they are to be away from their crazy lives for awhile." Maybe you're hunting for the wrong reason to begin with?

Even though it is Federal land nobody wants to see the Federal government in charge of all hunting on these lands. The states pay for some of the costs of administering the laws of these lands, and all of the game belongs to the state.

The states set their own fee schedules, and voters are much more important than non-voters.

However, I do think that all US citizens should have equal chances of drawing tags on Federal land - after veterans of the U.S. armed forces have all received their tags.

Actually it's a moot point.
The western G&F departments aren't going to lower nonresident license fees and the people who live elsewhere aren't going to move here just to get cheap resident tags. They will go on paying the high tag prices and spending a couple weeks a year dropping a lot of money at businesses in little mountain towns.

No matter how much bitching goes on by people like bowedark nothing is going to change.

You can't lump all Outfitters into this statement either because they are the ones lobbying for non resident hunters to get more tags so they can take your money too. Outfitters love non residents it does not work the other way around. They are your lobbyists fact. The best thing is to get each state's wildlife agency to manage herds for quantity not quality then you have enough animals for everyone to hunt. Opps but then all the trophy hunters bitch about quality. Good luck with your endeavors of convincing anyone of agreeing on one subject.

What's even more annoying is when one of these NR hunters who took our tags comes on forums, and asks us where to hunt.

Didn't you say you were a California resident for 30 years and hunted Colorado annually?

I believe residents should be given full priority on all non-Federal lands, and no NR licenses should be issued until the residents are served.

I believe that states should charge NR higher prices to hunt.

I believe that only people that have served the US should have priority on US land. Some things should be earned.

Yeah. I've been trying to draw a Unit 2 either sex tag for almost 2 decades. For all that time I put in for preference points as first choice and hunted cows in unit 2 on my second choice or got an over the counter bull tag and hunted either 3, 15 or 18. I've finally got enough preference points to draw it. All I have to do is be stateside during the season.

One year the state went to the so called hybrid system (to pacify the recent transplants) and they basically took some of the tags away from those trying for years to draw and gave them to people with 5 points. The first year they did that, some guy from Los Angeles actually sent me a PM on another forum that I posted a lot on elk saying he had drawn the Unit 2 tag in the hybrid draw and he would "really appreciate" it if I would give him pointers on where to go since I'd been hunting cows all those years. Talk about pissing me off! This clown got a tag I've been trying to get for nearly 20 years and then he wants me to tell him where to hunt.

I promptly told him where to go and the quickest route to get there. Later I saw his name in the Boone and Crockett Club's magazine called Fair Chase. He took a bull that officially scored 379 and made the book. Sometimes there just isn't any justice in the world!

I've always thought the really premium tags for elk/deer and all the tags for sheep, goat and moose in CO should be reserved for the residents as pay back for all the taxes we have to shell out.

Yes, but I didn't whine about it, or expert any favors.

Then I moved here, so now I can complain like the residents did when I was a non resident.

It's an interesting situation, I don't know what international hunters come under but I've wanted to hunt in the US and have looked at a few outfitters here and there and obviously it depends on states but it took a while to get my head around the fact that for some places/species you have to apply for sometimes years and years to get a tag. Makes it hard to organise something when you don't know when to organise your hunt. Harder because for us it's a flight half way across the world as opposed to a few hours drive for some of you lads. But thats your system, can't see it changing so I and everyone else will just have to deal with it.
Feel spoilt to be in a state of Aus that grants a resident 12 month unlimited seasons on all bar one species of big game we have!

So one day after my years of planning and waiting to get a tag and to travel all across the world I shouldn't come to you as a fellow hunter for advice as to where to go? :) haha

I don't want to speak for the man, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what he is talking about. In the USA often there are hunters from one state that complain and whine about the way another state issues tags. They always think those of us in the west should just give out tags away to someone living on the other side of the country. They have even gone so far as to try and take the western states to court to force them to issue tags the way they want them too.

What gets irritating is when someone, like the originator of this post, cries like a baby about tag allocation and then expects someone like Muley to tell them exactly where to find game. Mind you, often those of us in the west don't get a tag every years since they are limited. Yet someone from a state that allows them to kill 10 or 15 deer there still thinks they should just be given a tag out west. If I can't hunt myself why should I tell someone else where to get game? Let them do their own scouting.

If you are coming from half way around the world and wanted info on hunting, people would bend over backward to help you since you have already stated "But thats your system, can't see it changing so I and everyone else will just have to deal with it". You understand the states won't change the way they do things to accommodate you and that is the difference. How would you feel if a Yank from the USA complained because he can't just pop over the Australia and shoot a Banteng anytime he wants without consideration of the regulations you put in place to protect the resource?

I would think after your years of planning, you'd know where you want to hunt.

I'm talking about the guy from out of state that has planned nothing, has no points, and no clue who comes on a forum, and says......I'm coming to your state to take one of your tags away, and want to know where the best spot is to hunt. I don't want a trophy, but a 6x6 bull elk would be ok. I don't want your honey hole, but it would be nice.


Well, hell ya. You want to borrow my gun too?

Personally, I don't worry too much about tag allocations. What worries me more is pricing. I can't remember the last time I missed a Colorado hunt, but I would rather hunt every other year if it would mean that states would not continue their trend of weeding out hunters by pricing some out of the market. Montana is one state that is already there. They can't even sell all their nonresident allocations any more. Colorado, who is arguably the most nonresident friendly state, gives us an automatic price increase every year, while residents sit pat. Colorado is now making advetisements to try and lure the 30,000 nonresident elk hunters back that they have lost. I can pretty much afford to go in spite of the price but as stated, I would rather they cut me back to every other year if it would mean that more regular guys could still go. Several of my friends and others I know have been priced out.

And as far finding out where to hunt? Works the same way as it does in local circles: develop relationships and make friends of like minded people over time and they will help you when the time comes. What bothers me is guys who have never been on a website come one with their first post and tell you they drew a primo tag and couldn't we tell them where to hunt. Then they disappear to never be heard from again.

Why would I want to tell someone somewhere to hunt, they shoot an elk and never comes back. Next week I start scouting for next years elk season. I go out from November until September just to hunt 9 days of elk and if I am lucky I get 5 days of deer here in November. I know residents here that complain they don't shoot elk but they never scout and want to know where the animals are. I have nothing against non-residents getting tags but when they want to know spots to hunt I don't agree with helping them out. If you knew it was going to take 10 years to draw your dream tag maybe they should of came out to that area a few times camping in that 10 years.

Exactly. I can't believe guys who say they have 15 points, and want to know where to hunt, because they only have one week until the hunt starts. Stupid!

Indeed.
If a guy waits years for a dream tag and then comes up to opening day unprepared he should fail to score, and probably will. Good luck alone rarely does it.

In that case the local motel owner, the gas station owner, restaurant owners, etc. , as well as the G&F department all make a buck and the doofus goes home with nothing.
As it should be.

Muley Hunter and Flags I was just joking with you guys!
Muley Hunter you have already been more than helpful with me on a number of issues I've had, I couldn't ask anymore of you!
Help is handy but I've already been trying to help myself, I spoke to the Montana fish, wildlife and parks people and had hunting information sent to me from them. Mind you I'm still as confused as I was to begin with but it's a start!

I agree though, we get it heaps here in Australia. People here in Aus just asking on forums "where can I go to shoot a good stag" and expecting people to just give up their best spots. I personally love to help hunters and if they seem like genuine people I'm happy to forward them on to some decent public land but I'd never give out my best stuff or my private to anyone but my brother, myself and a very select couple of other people.
The biggest issue we have is there is no bag limit so we get idiots wanting land, then they'll go there and shoot everything they see day and night. Two incidents come to mind, the first was a bunch of Melbourne wankers (city slickers from about 4 hrs away) that we ran into a few years back. They were shocked they hadn't seen any deer because the year before they'd shot 25 (20 of which were hinds). What they were doing was male or female they'd shoot them (legally or illegally) and just cut the head of, tie it to the bullbar and leave the corpse where it lay.
The second bloke this year posted up a trip hunting fallow where he'd shot 6 forkhorns (2 year olds) and was whining that he couldn't find bigger ones! I said well if you let them grow they will grow and I was shocked at the amount of people who cut me down and it made me realise the kind of hunting culture that is building here with those city idiots.

Because deer laws for all our species (bar one) are so lax, management comes down to personal ethics and unfortunately there are too many people that don't care at all about that. Hound hunting crews are a good example here also. They put blood hounds, harriers and beagles on to deer trails, watch them through GPS trackers and move in to cut off the deer, the more they can shoot the better regardless of whether its a recently cast stag or a two day old fawn - and believe me I've seen pictures of plenty of both.

My philosophy with trophy hunting has been that I'd rather one big guy on my wall than 10 young ones gathering cobwebs in the shed. Meat animals, I won't shoot velvet stags or hinds/does that have young fawns at foot. Having said that, in the US I'd happily shoot, eat and mount a 6 point buck if I was fortunate enough to find one because for me hunting is far more important than killing and the trophy at the end is great but time in the bush is the best part of it. People laugh at me for saying it but as much as I love deer hunting and there's no way I could ever stop I do not enjoy the act of physically killing a deer, I just have so much respect for them, regardless of species they are just the best creature god invented.

Anyway that's just my personal rant

I'm certainly not pointing fingers, because my home state leads the nation in gouging nonresident whitetail hunters. And, I fully expect to pay more than a resident would pay, just like going to college out of state. But some of the fees I see just seem excessive. Aren't we all Americans? I consider myself an American first and an Illinoisan second.

Montana sure is gouging, and they're paying the price with lost tag sales.

Looking at the Parks and Wildlife 5 year structure coming up looks like Colorado will go up to $600.00 for a bull elk tag. That's getting pricey. Residents should go to $100.00 for elk. That would put some of the non serious hunters on the couch. Plus you gain 60% monetary value per tag. You could afford to lose 50% of the resident hunters and still make money. Less pressure more money. Could be a new trend. I like it.

I'm a lifelong Colorado resident and a 5th generation native. I've always said I'd gladly pay 5x what they ask for a tag if I could be ensured there would be less people in the woods during the season. I have no issue with an elk tag going for $100 if the crowds were thinned out accordingly.

But, it ain't gonna happen. Can you imagine how the Texans would scream if we cut them off? LOL

I started to hunt Colorado as a NR about 8 years ago and the OTC bull tags were around 500. They will be around 600 next year and I don't think that is too excessive considering the small steps they have gone up every year. I have hunted in several states and a few Canadian Provinces and rising NR tag fees are common. IMO Colorado has done it right but have to be aware of some of the other western states who went too far too fast. There is a point where the average person will not go out of state hunting if the fees get too high. Most Fish and Wildlife Departments rely on license sales to keep even with expenses and maintain habitat. The NR sales are important.

I've paid Colorado NR fees for 50 years, and 10 years as a resident. At 70 years old. I deserve a senior automatic tag now. Even if it's just a doe tag.

I've paid my dues. Give me something back now. I'm not looking for a free gift. Just guarantee me that I can hunt every year until i'm too old to hunt.

I turned 65 this summer Muley and our state Vermont gives 65 yr old and older permanent licenses. Since I usually go out of state to hunt and in January often don't know where or when I get a resident combination hunting and fishing license along with a turkey tag. If I need to get tags for the fall then I get them as needed. I was looking to get an archery tag and figured I would get the ML tag too and then decided to apply for the 65 and older license on line. The 2 tags I was looking for were 40 bucks and for 50 I paid a 1 time fee to get the permanent license. I got an early bear tag, a late bear tag, a buck tag, 3 turkey tags, a ml tag, and an archery tag all included along with a fishing license. On January 1 I just go on line and submit my hunter number and then click update permanent license and it all prints out once again along with all the tags and for free. A nice thing for a person who has paid into the system for 50+ years. It will save me about 100 bucks a year.

I'm not looking for anything free. I get a fishing license free here, but hunting is the same as anybody. I don''t understand that. Don't seniors hunt, or do they think we're too old to do anything but fish?

I'm willing to pay for the tags. Just let me have one every year. How many 70 year old residents are hunting? It's no big deal for them to give us a guaranteed tag every year. It won't even cost them anything. We'll pay for the tags.

I've spent 25 years on active duty and have paid Colorado income taxes every one of those years even if I never set foot in the state. I've also paid property taxes for every one of those years. I'm now 50 and I don't even get a free fishing license or a small game license. But then, I don't expect it either. I have no problem paying for licenses.

Hunters and fishermen pay for the game. Always have, always will. if they give me a free license then that means someone else is paying my way. I'll pass. If I can't pay my own way then I need to do a better job managing my finances. Elk, deer, fishing and small game amount to less than $120 for me as a resident. That's a whopping $10 a month or less than 2 trips to the burger joint.

Like Muley, I'm willing to pay but it irritates me when I can't get a tag but someone from another state can. Something is basically wrong with that scenario.

Not sure where i stand on this issue. Think all states resident and NR license fees are going up. Glad at least my state we have a lifetime license so i don't have to purchase one every year. I paid once and I am done. Now the money i originally paid though is used by the state wildlife commission and they invest that money. They are only authorized to spend interest or money made off of our invested money. Think it may be something other states can look into but like many things it may not work for everyone.

For the NR tags though think those should be reserved for Federal Lands and Outfitters. That would put all non residents on lands either privately/ corp owned or federally owned leaving all state citizens with access to their own states resources. With special waivers for Military Veterans to allow them to hunt within any state they are stationed within as a resident.

This is already observed. When someone is stationed in a state, they can buy resident hunting licenses for that state. Additionally if they claim a different state as a home of record, they can hunt as a resident of that state as well. Using myself as an example, I am stationed in VA with the Navy so I am legally allowed to buy a resident VA hunting license but my official home of record is CO and I still maintain a CO address and driver's license. So I can also buy resident licenses in CO. It is one of the benefits given to military and I am not aware of a single that doesn't follow this policy.

Here is what your state of NC says about it: Non-resident members of the armed forces, including their spouses and children under 18, who are stationed in the State are deemed residents of the State and of the counties in which they reside.

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Licensing/...finitions.aspx

In Colorado it saves me $800 a year being in the military stationed here. I doubt I would hunt all the animals each year if I had to pay NR rates.

I was aware of NC's license waivers for the military just wasnt sure about all other states so to not miss something i listed it. Kinda like when i was in the Navy certain states didnt require you to renew your drivers license while active duty but other states still required you to renew it.

SCREEEEEEAAAMMMM

Hi, my name is David and I am an elkoholic.

Going to $100 for residents would probably thin out the resident crowds just like the $600 NR tag has thinned NRs out (30,000 less NR elk hunters). But there is no way you would come close to making up the lost revenue if they cut us off. Then you would hear the Parks and wildlife and the communitites that make money from us scream.

Providing hunting opportunities to the next generation

Nonresidents as well residents could benefit from a program like I am proposing. They are also matters such as making access to landlocked public land.
All hunters need representation in legislation not just nonresidents on public land access. You know the rancher and the outfitter in the have their representatives just not the West.

And this is where the heart of the matter is rancher & outfitters have their representative.

We've all seen and heard reports and I've experienced. States give ranchers tags with an allocation of public tags in the drawings. And the rest are open to the highest bidder.You are allowed no time for scouting the unit and the area is less than prime areas.

The nonresident as no one representative his/hers interest legislature. We send and spend millions of dollars to states each year.


I've hunted some great trophies unit,got some and some I didn't, but that makes the trip worthwhile. It will make me smile on my deathbed

I'm older now. I have a decade and a half of points in a lot of states I know I can choose my tags. So I don't think it will affect me much.

In some states it's a constitutional right to hunt. Vermont has one of most hunter friendly state (laws) that have had a chance to hunt

By would by the way a little footnote. I have found more prime hunting areas, talking to the women in the grocery store checkout lines. They have put me on many a Bulls and bucks. by the way don't tell my husband

Yup in Vt we have a right to hunt any land we want to as long as it isn't posted. If a private landowner doesn't have it posted and asks you to leave you have to do so immediately as well as show your license if he asks. We have quite a bit of posted land in certain parts of the state but plenty of open hunting land too. Often a knock on the door on a posted piece will result in them allowing you to hunt. There was a lot more open hunting land when I grew up and unfortunately many of the larger tracts of land which used to be farms are no longer operating and have been bought up by out of staters who don't believe in the proud hunting traditions I grew up with.

Colorado is different. Land owners don't need to post their land, but you still can't go on the land. Trespassing fines are not friendly.

It's up to the hunter, fisherman, and hiker to know where the private land is here. If you shoot game, and it runs on private land that you don't know about. You could be in trouble if you go after it.


Just saying.