Am I Too Sensitive Here ?
11-19-2013, 08:12 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 992
Am I Too Sensitive Here ?
It was Oct. 15 of this year. Opening day of antelope and deer gun season in my area. ( 12 miles NW of Kaycee WY)
I'm parked along my fence line, outside the truck, fixing a gate, not wearing hunting clothes, fencing pliers in hand. I'm about 1/3 mile off a county road.
Along the road comes a G&F pickup truck. It stops and the warden jumps out and trots toward my location. He gets there and asks if I have seen anyone hunting. (My land borders a big parcel of state land)
I haven't seen anyone. I tell him I haven't hunted this day but plan to later , higher up the mountain. There are no guns or other hunting stuff in my truck.
He wants to see my hunting license. I happen to have it and show it to him. He is very cordial and says thanks and departs.
What if I had no license? At the time of the contact I'm just a guy out mending fence. What difference does it make if I have a license or not?
Kind of like a police officer stopping a pedestrian and wanting to see a drivers license.
It sort of irritated me to be confronted on my own land and asked to show a permit for doing something I wasn't doing in the first place.
Am I wrong here?
I'm parked along my fence line, outside the truck, fixing a gate, not wearing hunting clothes, fencing pliers in hand. I'm about 1/3 mile off a county road.
Along the road comes a G&F pickup truck. It stops and the warden jumps out and trots toward my location. He gets there and asks if I have seen anyone hunting. (My land borders a big parcel of state land)
I haven't seen anyone. I tell him I haven't hunted this day but plan to later , higher up the mountain. There are no guns or other hunting stuff in my truck.
He wants to see my hunting license. I happen to have it and show it to him. He is very cordial and says thanks and departs.
What if I had no license? At the time of the contact I'm just a guy out mending fence. What difference does it make if I have a license or not?
Kind of like a police officer stopping a pedestrian and wanting to see a drivers license.
It sort of irritated me to be confronted on my own land and asked to show a permit for doing something I wasn't doing in the first place.
Am I wrong here?
Last edited by Bullcamp82834; 11-19-2013 at 08:15 AM.
11-19-2013, 08:27 AM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
That's how I see it too. If he sees your truck later he'll probably remember it and know he doesn't have to worry about you. Besides, he is a state employee that is actually doing his job. How many times can you say that?
11-19-2013, 08:42 AM
#4
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
Muley makes a certain point. It could be something that simple. It's brusque and would seem to be efficient but it's a short-term strategy that usually lessens the long term results--you're still PO'd about it and he didn't accomplish a dang thing.
Whether you had your license or not, if it was expired or not, you weren't hunting and it was a meaningless waste of time. You showed him a valid hunting license but what if you did go hunting later and forgot to bring your license? He'd never know. What if you didn't have a required tag? He'd never know. What if, what if, what if??? He'll never know because he's "already checked" you out and now he knows "everything."
I'm a cop but I've never been a game warden. When I first started as a cop, some of the old guys taught me that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. It was some of the best LE teaching I ever received and I've used it with a huge amount of success throughout my career.
A smart warden in that situation (IMHO) would have talked to you about the weather (being country and polite), how your stock is doing, do you have any trespassing problems and how far does your fence run so he can keep an eye on it for you and call you if he sees any damage that needs more fixing than he can do with the Leatherman or similar tool that he should be carrying (they are much handier than people might think). He would also find out how many antelope, etc. you've been seeing and return the favor.
He should have given you a business card and asked you to call him if YOU are having any problems with hunters trespassing or you see any other potential game violations. That way he has 2 pairs of eyes watching for problems instead of just his own.
That might be the only time he ever talks to you and he's already blown a tremendous resource--somebody who lives in the area he patrols. Next month he might be trying to catch some bad guy (maybe a poacher or not) and wants to ask you if you've seen an associated vehicle. you'll probably answer him but how much time are you going to put into that answer? More importantly, how likely are you to call him when something is going down or actively work with him in the future? Probably not although that's obviously your decision to make.
If I sound a little critical of that Warden's actions, it's because I am. It's wardens/cops/LE like him that tend to give the rest of us a bad name and have never figured out that you can accomplish so much more as a cop or warden than simply asking for licenses (papers). Cops that focus on the small stuff tend to miss the big stuff when it's around them and often driving right by them.
Whether you had your license or not, if it was expired or not, you weren't hunting and it was a meaningless waste of time. You showed him a valid hunting license but what if you did go hunting later and forgot to bring your license? He'd never know. What if you didn't have a required tag? He'd never know. What if, what if, what if??? He'll never know because he's "already checked" you out and now he knows "everything."
I'm a cop but I've never been a game warden. When I first started as a cop, some of the old guys taught me that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. It was some of the best LE teaching I ever received and I've used it with a huge amount of success throughout my career.
A smart warden in that situation (IMHO) would have talked to you about the weather (being country and polite), how your stock is doing, do you have any trespassing problems and how far does your fence run so he can keep an eye on it for you and call you if he sees any damage that needs more fixing than he can do with the Leatherman or similar tool that he should be carrying (they are much handier than people might think). He would also find out how many antelope, etc. you've been seeing and return the favor.
He should have given you a business card and asked you to call him if YOU are having any problems with hunters trespassing or you see any other potential game violations. That way he has 2 pairs of eyes watching for problems instead of just his own.
That might be the only time he ever talks to you and he's already blown a tremendous resource--somebody who lives in the area he patrols. Next month he might be trying to catch some bad guy (maybe a poacher or not) and wants to ask you if you've seen an associated vehicle. you'll probably answer him but how much time are you going to put into that answer? More importantly, how likely are you to call him when something is going down or actively work with him in the future? Probably not although that's obviously your decision to make.
If I sound a little critical of that Warden's actions, it's because I am. It's wardens/cops/LE like him that tend to give the rest of us a bad name and have never figured out that you can accomplish so much more as a cop or warden than simply asking for licenses (papers). Cops that focus on the small stuff tend to miss the big stuff when it's around them and often driving right by them.
Last edited by CalHunter; 11-19-2013 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Darn spelling
11-19-2013, 09:15 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 992
Cal,
I'm a retired LEO so I guess I evaluate the actions of current LEOs more than the average person. If I had received a call back in the day about an encounter with one of the officers in my command , and it was similar to what I recently experienced , I would have spoken to that officer and said something very similar to what you just said.
I would never call and gripe to an officers superiors unless it was a very serious incident, which this was clearly not. I just don't roll that way. I just threw it out on this forum to bounce it off you guys.
BTW, my wife thinks it was no big deal and that I should think nothing of it.
I'm a retired LEO so I guess I evaluate the actions of current LEOs more than the average person. If I had received a call back in the day about an encounter with one of the officers in my command , and it was similar to what I recently experienced , I would have spoken to that officer and said something very similar to what you just said.
I would never call and gripe to an officers superiors unless it was a very serious incident, which this was clearly not. I just don't roll that way. I just threw it out on this forum to bounce it off you guys.
BTW, my wife thinks it was no big deal and that I should think nothing of it.
11-19-2013, 09:29 AM
#6
Spike
Join Date: May 2003
Location: I live in Alaska
Posts: 14
I don't think I would have thought too much of it. But i like what CalHunter said. Up here, every officer (game or LE) I have met have been extremely couteous and very helpful which in turn causes me to be more helpful to them. Of course some of these folks work very remote and far from resources/backup and so a little kindness goes a very long way out in the bush.
11-19-2013, 09:41 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,071
I prob wouldn't have cared one way or the other...I usually have my hunting license on me...cuz out here theres always something you can shoot...coyotes being the main thing you can shoot all year...
11-19-2013, 09:53 AM
#8
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
BC, I get what your wife is saying. In the big scheme of things (for her), it was nothing. As a civilian/citizen, she is used to being asked for her license by a cop/warden and thinks nothing of it. To her, it is business as usual and no big deal. For some cops (or wardens), that's just how they roll. They did their "job" and can move on to the next person because that's what they deem important in their job.
I worked with quite a few people like that over the years--focus on something trivial and really work it so it looks like they are doing a great job and staying busy. They check little stuff like that but they miss so much more. And they never really KNOW the people in their beat.
Whenever I started working in a new area, I always got out of my car and actually talked to a lot of people. I handed out a huge amount of business cards and it paid off with big dividends. People would leave me a voice mail about some crime happening in my beat and would say how they wouldn't have thought about reporting it but I took the time to talk with them, answered their questions (that's huge in a citizen's world) and gave them a card to call me if they needed something or wanted to report something.
Plain and simple, I was a beat cop who knew most of the business owners and employees and knew a lot of the citizens who lived there. Most of them knew me or had heard of me and it often resulted in finding out problems in my beat that would have gone unreported and grown into something bigger because of it.
It's obviously old school and is disappearing from LE. It's unfortunate because it works so much better and it really is a better ROI on a citizen's investment in LE. They do pay our wages and benefits although some cops seem to forget that.
I worked with quite a few people like that over the years--focus on something trivial and really work it so it looks like they are doing a great job and staying busy. They check little stuff like that but they miss so much more. And they never really KNOW the people in their beat.
Whenever I started working in a new area, I always got out of my car and actually talked to a lot of people. I handed out a huge amount of business cards and it paid off with big dividends. People would leave me a voice mail about some crime happening in my beat and would say how they wouldn't have thought about reporting it but I took the time to talk with them, answered their questions (that's huge in a citizen's world) and gave them a card to call me if they needed something or wanted to report something.
Plain and simple, I was a beat cop who knew most of the business owners and employees and knew a lot of the citizens who lived there. Most of them knew me or had heard of me and it often resulted in finding out problems in my beat that would have gone unreported and grown into something bigger because of it.
It's obviously old school and is disappearing from LE. It's unfortunate because it works so much better and it really is a better ROI on a citizen's investment in LE. They do pay our wages and benefits although some cops seem to forget that.
Last edited by CalHunter; 11-19-2013 at 09:58 AM.
11-19-2013, 12:16 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 992
Indeed, the old "us against them" mentality. I will freely admit that in my younger days I fell into that mindset. Age and experience taught me the foolishness of that idea.
It's counterproductive to the mission and is fueled by ego.
Anyway, I appreciate the input.
I guess this thread should have been posted in another category like general discussion.
It's counterproductive to the mission and is fueled by ego.
Anyway, I appreciate the input.
I guess this thread should have been posted in another category like general discussion.
Last edited by Bullcamp82834; 11-19-2013 at 07:06 PM.
11-22-2013, 06:25 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 848
It would have annoyed me -- mildly. It appears to me to have been someone throwing their authority around just to prove they have it. I've had a warden ask to see a cased gun on my back seat when I wasn't hunting. I consented, but I did feel a bit imposed upon.
Last edited by Murdy; 11-22-2013 at 06:32 PM.