Am I Too Sensitive Here ?
 

It was Oct. 15 of this year. Opening day of antelope and deer gun season in my area. ( 12 miles NW of Kaycee WY)
I'm parked along my fence line, outside the truck, fixing a gate, not wearing hunting clothes, fencing pliers in hand. I'm about 1/3 mile off a county road.

Along the road comes a G&F pickup truck. It stops and the warden jumps out and trots toward my location. He gets there and asks if I have seen anyone hunting. (My land borders a big parcel of state land)
I haven't seen anyone. I tell him I haven't hunted this day but plan to later , higher up the mountain. There are no guns or other hunting stuff in my truck.

He wants to see my hunting license. I happen to have it and show it to him. He is very cordial and says thanks and departs.

What if I had no license? At the time of the contact I'm just a guy out mending fence. What difference does it make if I have a license or not?
Kind of like a police officer stopping a pedestrian and wanting to see a drivers license.
It sort of irritated me to be confronted on my own land and asked to show a permit for doing something I wasn't doing in the first place.

Am I wrong here?

You said you were going to hunt later in the day. He was just checking you now instead of later.

I wouldn't have thought much of it.

That's how I see it too. If he sees your truck later he'll probably remember it and know he doesn't have to worry about you. Besides, he is a state employee that is actually doing his job. How many times can you say that?

Muley makes a certain point. It could be something that simple. It's brusque and would seem to be efficient but it's a short-term strategy that usually lessens the long term results--you're still PO'd about it and he didn't accomplish a dang thing.

Whether you had your license or not, if it was expired or not, you weren't hunting and it was a meaningless waste of time. You showed him a valid hunting license but what if you did go hunting later and forgot to bring your license? He'd never know. What if you didn't have a required tag? He'd never know. What if, what if, what if??? He'll never know because he's "already checked" you out and now he knows "everything."

I'm a cop but I've never been a game warden. When I first started as a cop, some of the old guys taught me that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. It was some of the best LE teaching I ever received and I've used it with a huge amount of success throughout my career.

A smart warden in that situation (IMHO) would have talked to you about the weather (being country and polite), how your stock is doing, do you have any trespassing problems and how far does your fence run so he can keep an eye on it for you and call you if he sees any damage that needs more fixing than he can do with the Leatherman or similar tool that he should be carrying (they are much handier than people might think). He would also find out how many antelope, etc. you've been seeing and return the favor.

He should have given you a business card and asked you to call him if YOU are having any problems with hunters trespassing or you see any other potential game violations. That way he has 2 pairs of eyes watching for problems instead of just his own.

That might be the only time he ever talks to you and he's already blown a tremendous resource--somebody who lives in the area he patrols. Next month he might be trying to catch some bad guy (maybe a poacher or not) and wants to ask you if you've seen an associated vehicle. you'll probably answer him but how much time are you going to put into that answer? More importantly, how likely are you to call him when something is going down or actively work with him in the future? Probably not although that's obviously your decision to make.

If I sound a little critical of that Warden's actions, it's because I am. It's wardens/cops/LE like him that tend to give the rest of us a bad name and have never figured out that you can accomplish so much more as a cop or warden than simply asking for licenses (papers). Cops that focus on the small stuff tend to miss the big stuff when it's around them and often driving right by them. :bash:

Cal,

I'm a retired LEO so I guess I evaluate the actions of current LEOs more than the average person. If I had received a call back in the day about an encounter with one of the officers in my command , and it was similar to what I recently experienced , I would have spoken to that officer and said something very similar to what you just said.
I would never call and gripe to an officers superiors unless it was a very serious incident, which this was clearly not. I just don't roll that way. I just threw it out on this forum to bounce it off you guys.

BTW, my wife thinks it was no big deal and that I should think nothing of it.

I don't think I would have thought too much of it. But i like what CalHunter said. Up here, every officer (game or LE) I have met have been extremely couteous and very helpful which in turn causes me to be more helpful to them. Of course some of these folks work very remote and far from resources/backup and so a little kindness goes a very long way out in the bush.

I prob wouldn't have cared one way or the other...I usually have my hunting license on me...cuz out here theres always something you can shoot...coyotes being the main thing you can shoot all year...

BC, I get what your wife is saying. In the big scheme of things (for her), it was nothing. As a civilian/citizen, she is used to being asked for her license by a cop/warden and thinks nothing of it. To her, it is business as usual and no big deal. For some cops (or wardens), that's just how they roll. They did their "job" and can move on to the next person because that's what they deem important in their job.

I worked with quite a few people like that over the years--focus on something trivial and really work it so it looks like they are doing a great job and staying busy. They check little stuff like that but they miss so much more. And they never really KNOW the people in their beat.

Whenever I started working in a new area, I always got out of my car and actually talked to a lot of people. I handed out a huge amount of business cards and it paid off with big dividends. People would leave me a voice mail about some crime happening in my beat and would say how they wouldn't have thought about reporting it but I took the time to talk with them, answered their questions (that's huge in a citizen's world) and gave them a card to call me if they needed something or wanted to report something.

Plain and simple, I was a beat cop who knew most of the business owners and employees and knew a lot of the citizens who lived there. Most of them knew me or had heard of me and it often resulted in finding out problems in my beat that would have gone unreported and grown into something bigger because of it.

It's obviously old school and is disappearing from LE. It's unfortunate because it works so much better and it really is a better ROI on a citizen's investment in LE. They do pay our wages and benefits although some cops seem to forget that.

Indeed, the old "us against them" mentality. I will freely admit that in my younger days I fell into that mindset. Age and experience taught me the foolishness of that idea.
It's counterproductive to the mission and is fueled by ego.

Anyway, I appreciate the input.
I guess this thread should have been posted in another category like general discussion.

It would have annoyed me -- mildly. It appears to me to have been someone throwing their authority around just to prove they have it. I've had a warden ask to see a cased gun on my back seat when I wasn't hunting. I consented, but I did feel a bit imposed upon.

I think you have every right to be a bit irritated. Fixing fences on your own land and then get asked for your hunting license. However, I would cooperate to avoid problems in the future. I would rather have a game warden look at me as a good guy than a suspect in the long run of things.

Put me in the no big deal camp. He asked for the license cause you said you were going to go hunting, just checking. It's the same as if you were hunting. The difference and issue may have come if you didn't have it. then what would he do? My guess, nothing, wish you good luck and remind you to make sure you have your license.

You met the CO, this is a good thing!

Probably not a big deal. However, in the medical community there's a phenomenon known as "white coat syndrome" Basically the sight of a doctor makes you nervous, your blood pressure rises, etc. I get the same thing with LEO's, and I'm definitely a law abiding citizen. Nothing to hide. I'd imagine others feel the same way at times.

While it appears it is no big deal.. I am in disagreement.. He has no hunting equipment with him and only fence mending pliers.. There was really no need to ask for his hunting license at all IMO. It was a gate on his property and he could of asked if he own the land where the fence he was fixing is or how the fence may have gotten broken. But, no he looked right by that and simply asked for his license.. I feel he was out of line on this issue..

We had a warden up in this area that would ask for your hunting/fishing license while you were fishing or hunting. No big deal he is supposed to then. But, when he asked to see it everytime you are out. Then that is going to far. 3 maybe 4 times would be acceptable until he got to realize he has checked you out and now has an idea of who you are. This same warden checked my license and me out 3 times in less than an hour out Ice fishing one day. He ended up leaving me alone after I asked him if he thinks he could try and find some one doing something wrong. We had a nick name for him here, that was Sneakers Bob. He ended up getting shipped out of this area to a new location. For more than one reason.

The new warden gets along with fine with most here. He checked my license out a couple of times and hardly ever bothers me and we talk normal stuff like mentioned here earlier. This past spring I was heading turkey hunting and came across a guy in his 70s walking on the dirt road I was traveling. I stopped and asked if everything was alright. He replied that he and his wife who is a diabetic had gotten stuck in a side road about 3 miles from where I had stopped. As well as they spent a cold night in the car. He had just gotten out of the hospital 3 days earlier. I told him to jump in and get warm while I called from my cell phone to get the local wardens number. That was after asking if an ambulance was in order.

The warden showed up and asked me to stay with the old fella and he was going in to check on his wife. Also another warden was on the way out. It took roughly an hour before the other warden made it there and the old fella got into his truck and they proceeded down to where his wife was. Now get this I informed both wardens I was on my way turkey hunting. Neither one was concerned about my hunting license. They both thanked me for contacting them and keeping the old fella warm. They also wished me good luck with my turkey hunting. That surely is a big difference from the warden mentioned first that was assigned here.

So I could clearly see no reason to check for his license and if he did not, he should of stated good luck if you get to go out hunting.. As Cal stated a little kindness goes along ways..

My local warden has seen and talked to me so much that he just waves when he see's me now.

We've talked on the phone a lot just shooting the bull. He's convinced at this point that I don't break any laws. Which I don't.

On the license checking issue it's just a small thing but small things are remembered when an officer is acting under color of law. I'm always legal when hunting so getting checked is nothing.
I'm my case it was outside the scope of the officers duty to ask to see a hunting license.
What if I was on my back forty mending fence and a trooper stopped by and I said I planned to drive home later? Do I need to show my drivers license?

I know it sounds frivolous but I am always sensitive to government intrusion into areas where it has no business.

You should have said...........I only carry it when i'm hunting!

Now this is a good response but, then this warden might just start hanging around and messing up your hunting. Just because he can.. I think he did the right thing by showing his license to him in order to save on perhaps a future headache. But, IMO it is still wrong to have checked him out like that.

I can understand where everybody is coming from and the fact that different people have different comfort levels and expectations from wardens, etc. I wouldn't have done it that way (looking at the LE side of things) but then again, I've always looked at LE (Law Enforcement) stuff like the old choices you used to get in catalogs when buying something--Good, better or Best.

Like Bull, I was a tad overzealous and pretty green when I first started in LE. It was kind of a quantity versus quality issue. As I learned over time and a lot from some wise old guys (they often have made the same mistakes you have and already learned from them), I figured out how to go for quality versus quantity. You catch a lot more bad guys that way and you gain a huge amount of respect and cooperation from everybody else and often even the bad guys.

From what I read, I don't think that particular warden has hit his stride or is operating at his "best" level yet. Hopefully he matures and gets there.

I agree with Cal's assessment of the warden.
The guy was as cordial as could be and did not project a badge heavy attitude at all. I was cordial right back but a little miffed afterward simply because, like most folks here, I am very touchy about my property rights and being confronted on my own land.