Yellowstone is Dead
 

Yellowstone is Dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYxGJB5dJxI

Hope I posted this in the right place. This is a part of a documentary put together by Scott Rockholm about the illegal Canadian wolf introduction and what it has and is doing to the lower 48.

The full 2 hour documentary comes out next month

Powerful stuff there...

will it be on tv?

I just saw a think on discovery probably about wolves in yellowstone, etc...and it was all about how "great" the return of the wolf was. the willows are back, etc...

This documentary will bring out the fraud and corruption of the illegal wolf introduction. It will show the real truth of how the wolves have decimated the game herds and are putting them in a predator pit. The USFWS have been releasing wolves in many states along with the help of state game departments. The release and then discover game is about to come to a sliding halt. Here is another example of the wolf destruction.

Elk in Yellowstone are in trouble!
http://saveelk.com/wolf_022.htm

We have first hand experence with what wolves do game where I live, we have alot of wolves here, we used to have alot of elk here but the wolves have pretty much decimated our elk heards. What in the hell were these people thinking when they brought them here? The only good wolf is a dead wolf! Everone needs to practice the three S rule, shoot, shovel, and shut the ---- up. That is the only way to manage a uncontrollable wolf problem, the feds will not be happy till our elk, are on the endangered list. The American hunters are just going to have to take matters in their own hands. JMHO.

And here in Upper Michigan, Where do they get these brilliant Biologist??:hail:

Last I read, the federal judge who made the decision to defer the decision to manage wolf populations to the federal government (instead of the states) was going to retire soon. I can understand how that right would fall under federal control on federal lands (e.g. parks) but what about the ranchers and farmers on private land? Don't they have a right to manage their own property? When elk started getting off of Fort Riley and destroying crops, the state allowed land owners to apply for tags to cull the growing populations of FEDERALLY RELEASED animals when they ventured on to PRIVATE LAND. And these animals aren't even dangerous (until they cross the road) compared to an adult wolf. So how is it a good idea to make land-owners our outfitters wait until they are attacked or are about to be attacked until their populations can be kept in check?

This problem is only going to get worse once the wolves figure out how much easy food is gathering in the winter at the elk refuge near Jackson Hole, with 6,000 elk and over 650 bison. It's just north of town, so I wonder if wildlife officials are going to wait until a population of wolves are "established" before they decide they need to hire people to "thin their numbers" or if they cave in and decide open a wolf season near the park. I just hope that the next judge to hear the case regarding wolf population population control understands that states have the capacity and the right to manage their wildlife populations when it comes to their own borders.

BillBrasky,,The USFWS and several state game agencies are being run by the environmentalist, that is why they loose every case that goes to court. The federal judge did not retire he just changed positions, and his new position is still not good for those of us who don't want these wolves.

This documentary will be on TV next month. please share these links with everyone. Thank you.

Yellowstone is Dead Theatrical Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhnZvan_uT8

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/vi...olloy_Retires/

From what this article says, the federal judge responsible for interfering with the state regulation of wolf populations is retiring, but "still hearing cases." (whatever that means) Either way the documentary looks very interesting and I'm anxious to see the rest. I wouldn't go so far as to attribute the whole protection of large predators ordeal to "environmentalists." I consider myself to be an environmentalist, but I am an environmentalist that still includes humans as an active part of the ecosystem, and that despite good intentions, we cannot always accurately predict what effect our actions will have on the environment. But there two things that are certain: predators need prey and everything needs a predator; whether it be wolves, bears or Canada geese. And when populations grow exponentially, they can cause permanent damage to their food sources so they have to move to find more food for an even bigger population. Like I say, my guess is that it won't be long before the wolves follow elk herds to the refuge where they're being fed in the winter. The difference between wolves and geese, though, is that it will be a much more serious situation when the wolves make it to the Jackson Hole airport.

The real problem is not the wolf ,it 's the management of them. They are treated like a sacred cow which is wrong. The biggest problem is the removal of humans out of the equation. Wolves were always hunted by the natives for clothing and food. Coyotes and Wolves were always part of the food chain but seems like scientists overlook the human elements.
The person early on that makes the statement about who contols the population hit the nail on the head. We are the problem not the wolf itself . The emotional irrational Disney tree hugger types that don't allow population control.
Introduction of the wolf wasn't bogus science ,it did help the Yellowstone. One could plainly see the new growth around streams and rivers and the park started to look like it did from days when the wolf did exist from old accounts and the earliest pictures. The wolf does belong in the park but like anything else it's numbers need to be controled also.
For you bear attack types, have you ever read early accounts of trappers and the need for "bear doors" ? The great bears have always be oppurtunistic and looked at man as a easy meal at times.

Fritz,sorry but I have to disagree with ya on this.I follow the 2 "S" rule......... shoot & shoot some more.Effem let them find them!!

While we dont have wolfs where I hunt we have coyotes and coye-dogs.The farmers are always happy when you exterminate this pest from their property.

I don't really know much about the wolf issue as I don't live in a state where you'll find wolves. But if I did live in an area that had them and I thought I was loosing livestock to them, or if I believed the game animals were being eradicated by the wolves, I'd probably do something about it. Especially on my own land.

Like it or not, in many states. Killing a wolf is a Federal Felony.

This carries with it the right to never own a gun ever again.
The right to never hunt again.
Tens of thousands of dollars in fines, and several years in Federal Prison.
I don't care for the Wolves around here myself. But I'm not going to chance years wasted in Prison, fines I'll never be able to pay, and worst. Not being able to own a gun and use it to hunt.

Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming I think are the three states that instituted a Wolf season.
Minneosta, Michigan and Wisconsin, who also have a expanding wolf populations, don't have a wolf season. Though I think they should.

Isnt the whole point of SSS to not talk about it? Why bring attention to it?

Oh and Im sure this will not air on discovery or any other mainstream liberal media outlet.

We as hunters have to face the reality, that as destructive as wolves and coyotes are, the general public cares F-all whether we have elk, moose or deer to hunt. They only care about the cute lil fuzzy wolfs rights, so dont expect any sympathy to come from this movie, if even if more than a few people actually even see it.

I will have to agree, the two s rule does sound better.

I didn't know that. The last thing a hunter or anyone eles for that matter needs is a felony wrap against them.What if you need to kill the wolf in lets say a self defense kind of sitituation,how could the warden prove you different? Are ranchers permited to kill them if they become a livestock threat?

I fish on a shallow lake in upstate NY called Black Lake. The lake is renouned for it's bass fishery.There's about a dozen camps on the lake and roughly about another dozen bussiness' that count on that fishery for these bussiness' to survive.

Well a few years back they developed a Cormorant problem,these birds were devouring fish.It's a federaly protected bird.

To make a long story short the locals "fixed" the Cormorant issue on their own to protect their livelyhood.

My point is sometimes you got take care of these issues cause the misinformed "tree huggers" have a louder voice & heavier wallet than we do with people in politics.

I agree with you Jerry, I'm not in a wolf area... But I know if they told me I wasnt allowed to shoot yotes anymore, I'd still be shooting them. Wild dogs are a huge problem around here. They get it too. If the wolf is doing as much damage as some ppl say, something is gonna have to be done.
-Jake

I saw a recent TV show, Expedition Wild with Casey Anderson, on the reintroduction of the wolf in Yellowstone.

http://www.peoplepets.com/news/video...n-new-season/1


It seemed to take a positive position for the ecological benefits and the benefits to the health of the elk herd (even the benefit to Pronghorn & bears).

We as hunters, the true conservationist of the ecology and for all wildlife, need to be more actively involved in putting pressure on the politicians and judges to insure that these resources will be secured for many generations to come.

have no speakers here so dont know what is said,
but just the source of the vid has me skeptical on validaty of info,
friends of elk herd foundation? they wouldnt be biased would they?

Well just my two cents here......... Two wrongs don't make it right and no matter how much U think the government is wrong, killing a protected species accomplishes one thing and one thing only, it makes U a POACHER and only brings more anti hunter sentiment and the call for MORE wolf protection

These people live with the wolf day in day out they have seen the destruction to wildlife not just elk herds but the moose populations are as low as they have ever been in years in the areas where the wolf packs rule the roost.

These people who had a hand in making this vid have lived there for generations and see first hand what the wolf is doing .

IMOP I dont think we can (living where we do) tell those who live amongst them that they dont know what they are talking about simply because they live it.

For one thing, what they did was ILLEAGLE! They introduced a non-native species, the Canadian Grey Wolf, which was never a native animal to the lower 48, we had wolves, they were Timber wolves, they are alot smaller. The canadian Grey wolf gets 180-200 pounds, and can and do kill anything they want just to kill it, they dont kill just for food. Now if I was to take a dozen gold fish and was to dump them in one of are lakes, that would be introducing a non-native species and I would be arrested for it, and face all kinds of fines and penilties, yet the fish & game have done it, jepordising all wildlife and possibly human life in the prosess. If you dont think a pack of 7 or more 150-200lb wolves that are capabile of taken down moose wont go after a human you are sadly mistaken. Here in Idaho we can legally shoot them if they are endangering you, your hounds, or your livestock. Last year I came very close to losing two very good bear hounds that are valued over $6000, luckily I had a garmin GPS tracking system on my dogs and was able to get to them before they were killed. I know many other hunters that havnt been so lucky.
Hell why stop with the wolves?, They could introduce some of those snake head fish to our rivers and streams and wipe out all our salmon, steelhead, and trout too.

Lake trout were illegally introduced into Yellowstone lake. If you pull one out of yellowstone lake it's kill upon landing because of the damage they have caused to the native yellowstone cutthroat populations. Sounds like an easy legal precedent to me :D

Well when will people learn,wolfs are a nusince.The first man to shoot a wolf in 09 had tons off hate mail because he killed a pest.Now wolf hunting is ilegal? I respect the wildlife warden,but this is wrong.

For what its worth. I check this all the time and do recieve the e-mail alerts.

Link

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammal.../dogdepred.htm

JW

Here's the latest data on the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd. They're down 24% in just the last year and down over 70% since wolves were reintroduced in 1995. From 2000 to 2011 the NYEH has declined from 14,538 to 4,635.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/nati...a94794397.html


Here's another article from today's Billings Gazette regarding wolf research. Note that the researcher estimates that their wolf population estimates are likely low by as much as 44%.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...6a2dcf7a5.html

Canadian Grey Wolves, whatever that is, have been walking accross the border from Canada for decades without any help from biologists.
Relax there are lots of wolves and elk in Canada just not an elk behind every tree. Montana still has very generous limits on elk for 2 legged preditors.

Canadian Grey wolves are native to the Yukon and Alaska, not the lower 48, they were never here until illeaglly intoduced by humans. What we had here are Timber wolves, the same as what Cananda had on the other side of the border, The difference is about 100lbs, or more. As far as Montana having plenty of elk, that is not true either, there elk herds have been hit hard also, I know, I happen to live about an hour from Superior Mt., I know alot of people that live in Montana and they are experencing the same problems that we are here in Idaho. How are you going to make this rediculous statement and you your self dont even know what the difference between a Canadian Grey Wolf and a Timber wolf is any way? That is what the problem is, people are uninformed and think they know it all.

I'm just curious, what is the difference between this canadian grey wolf you keep talkin about and the timber wolf U talk about.......what is the latin name for each??? U say the candian grey wolf weighs 100lbs more than a timber wolf so it's like 250lbs or more?????
Any info U could furnish would be greatly appreciated as I can find no scienticfic info on this canadian grey wolf or anything on a timber wolf can only find info on the grey wolf:confused0024:

:lolabove:

Sorry, but even the biggest wolves in Alaska and Canada top out below 180lbs. The biggest wolf ever recorded in NA weighed 175 lbs, and that was back in 1939 in AK. The average wolf in MT, ID, and WY is going to be ~100lbs for a male and ~85 for a female. Those must have been some small wolves we had 100 years ago if the ones we have now have 100lbs on them. If you have seen very many wolves, you would know a 130-140lb wolf is a BIG wolf.

Wolves have never been eradicated from MT, and they have been coming south from Canada long before they introduced wolves to YNP. The problem isn't what type of wolf we have, the problem is they were allowed to increase their numbers above what the habitat can sustain.

SSS isn't the answer, doing so will just make it easier for the environmentalists to keep the wolf listed.

[QUOTE=skiking;3758776]:lolabove:

Sorry, but even the biggest wolves in Alaska and Canada top out below 180lbs. The biggest wolf ever recorded in NA weighed 175 lbs, and that was back in 1939 in AK. The average wolf in MT, ID, and WY is going to be ~100lbs for a male and ~85 for a female. Those must have been some small wolves we had 100 years ago if the ones we have now have 100lbs on them. If you have seen very many wolves, you would know a 130-140lb wolf is a BIG wolf

Check this out.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=34797

We have several at the taxidermy shop that go well over 150lbs!

Ok I'm no expert but this is the way it was explained to me by abiologist friend of mine .

Its like whitetail deer the deer in Canada weight more then the deer in Florida on average takes a bigger hardier deer to live in the the far north regions of their range . Same with wolves.

Ok here is the subspecies differences.

Great Plains Wolf (Canis lupus nubilus)
Also called Timber Wolf and Buffalo Wolf, this is the was most common subspecies of grey wolf in the continental US.
The range of these animals used to cover the whole of the US and southern Canada. However relentless hunting and habitat destruction has resulted in their protection as an endangered species.
Great Plains Wolf has made a comeback and their numbers are rising again.

Gray Wolf (Canis lupus)
The wolf from which most others arise, the gray wolf is the largest of the canid species. They can be found in a wide variety of habitats throughout most of North America.
These animals survived the ice age and are thought to be the ancestor of domestic dog.

Seen that before, highly doubt that it is as heavy as they claim. I got pictures on my phone last fall with a guy claiming he shot a #250 lb wolf near Darby, it was probably 1/2 of that. It is like a mystical 430"+ bull elk, probably one out there but even if you wander the woods for the rest of your life you will probably never see one that big.

Rule #1. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.

justhuntitall
I have never heard that the great lakes wolf is also called the timber wolf..but U R the first to even attemp to do any research and come up with the scientific name.....I have read alot on wolves lately and have found nothing on this so called timber wolf, the search always comes back to the gray wolf just as the search for this canadian gray wolf.....every search comes back to canis lupus and it's subspeicies of which there are a number of different ones , that the discussion is ongoing on how many there really is.......with Canis lupus familiaris being one of them...I guess we better be a gettin after them also!!!!!

I am a biologist and in my ecology class in college they discussed what happens when things are signficantly changed. When you add or remove a species it has drastic changes to the whole ecosystem. When I went to Yellowstone years ago (as a driving through the park visitor) I learned that because of the wolves the herbivores stopped eating the plants by the streams because they were too out in the open (easy prey for the wolves). This let the plants grow more, which shaded the streams, which cooled them, which allowed the trout to return. This sounded good to me and really demonstrated the far reaching effects of a top predator. I even had a question on a college exam about this exact situation.

In this case when you introduce a predatory species that has been gone for decades, which allowed its prey to increase in numbers, you will get a HUGE increase in the population of the predator. It will be so big that it will drive its prey almost to extinction. The long term effect of the drop in prey is a big drop in the predator. Then the prey comes back, then the predator, etc. Eventually you will hit a more natural balance (which still usually goes through cycles). The problem is that this is on a very long term scale (many decades to centuries).

To me it seems like hunting the wolf is an absolutely perfect way to keep their population from rising so sharply that they bring their prey within sight of extinction. They were there before, in balance, but it would be a LONG time for it to ever reach that naturally, if it did.

In my opinion someone should have the right to keep animals on their own property under control. I know when the squirrels get out of control here (literally chewing on the deck and house) the problem doesn't last long...

"In my opinion someone should have the right to keep animals on their own property under control."

Who's land is it anyway !?!?



Yellowstone National Park

For The Benefit And Enjoyment of the People

Well not everyone sees an elk as a target. Non Hunters own the game and land as well. On my own property the moose walkin around on it don't belong to me and shouldn't anyways.

Well said ...I'm sure some will dissagree...but U R right, everyone should have a say in what is going on!!!!!!

God, the internet is great place!

I am amazed at two things:
1. How the weight of that Alberta wolf has gone clear to 230 lbs, about a pound for every time it gets posted.

2. How many freaking people have seen it in person.(or at least their mother's brother's nephew's neighbor's cousin twice removed did) LOL.

Next time one of you internet wolf mythologists gets a 220 lbs(very typical weight in MT and ID) black bear down on the ground, go ahead and lift it and get a picture like that guy in the wolf porn pic.

The fact of the matter is, barely 1 person in 100 hunters could even accurately identify a 150 inch whitetail, let alone the weight of an animal most have never laid eyes on.

Just ask any barstool biologist around here, these "Canadian Grays" fart thunder and crap lightning, they have 5 litters a year(yeah, one guy actually told me this), and they eat twice their body weight every day.