gonna catch crap for this post...
 

...but how do you "get off" killing a bear over bait. or anything else for that matter. Just tuned into an A-Way show with the guy climbing a ladder stand with a big smile on his face saying "I can smell the bait and the anise oil set"..WTF I say...just doesn't seem right to me...ok start bringing the heat for me bashing hunting over bait....Just can't stand to think that is part of hunting.....and the fact that it makes TV show..

Have you ever bear hunted?

If you were a hunter
 

you would know in some states it is illegal; in some states it is legal.

It generally depends on the hunting population and the hunting conditions. Sometimes the mandate is to keep the population within bounds with the hunters available.

Some states are using shooters in urban areas to reduce deer populations. Is the use of night scopes and night hunting fair. In this question it has nothing to do with fair, but the resolution of an overpopulation causing accidents, lyme disease and other urban problems.

In some areas, you may just have to retire from hunting.

Don't suppose that hunting over a water hole is "fair" in your eyes either, huh? Such as lots of bow hunters do for antelope. Don't suppose you like mtn. lion being tree'd either? Even though it gives the hunter a lot of time to determine sex of the cat and weather or not to shoot it or let it live another day. Much like a hunter can do while bear hunting over bate. Gives the hunter a lot of time to determine sex of the bear and if the bear is a of size that the hunter is looking for.
You probably don't sit over a well used deer trail either. Why, after all, it's just not fair knowing that the deer use the trail often and there's a good chance that they will come down that trail at any moment. How fair is it to sit in a treestand 20' up out of the deers view and getting your scent away from them. Almost like cheating isn't it!
By the way, I've never bear hunted, not even over bait. BUT at least I understand the vailidity of it!!

What he said.

Knew this was coming. Almost like I threw the bait out for some of you. No pun intended! I have not hunted bear, but I would, but not over bait that I was for sure gonna have my choice to choose from.

I hunt NY. Yes they keep the deer population in control, and baiting is illegal. If it was legal I still would not be a part of it..

As far as determining the age and sex of a bear, I probably am not educated to make a statement. NY you can't shoot a bear if it is with other bear. Pretty much eliminates a sow and cubs from being taken.

I figured this post would get blown up, but I am not here to argue, but maybe get educated as to why baiting is a good thing and "needed or required" to take a free ranging animal.

The show I tuned into just left a sour taste in my mouth when someone was so happy about spooking a bear off a pile of food strategically placed by a stand only to say he wiill be back in minutes.....

Maybe it is needed is certain areas of the country, but imagine if it was legal across the country..

Bait: : something used in luring especially to a hook or trap.

If you hunt over a food plot you hunt over bait.
If you use doe estrous you hunt over bait.
If you use dominant buck urine you hunt over bait.
If you make a mock scrape you hunt over bait.
If you use C' Meer Deer, Acorn Rage, or anything similar you hunt over bait.
If you use a decoy you hunt over bait.

I can go on all day long with this and will bet you a years salary that you too, MJR10, hunt over or with bait.

Yesterday I belly crawled to with 75 yards of a bedded elk herd. Grey wool britches, orange vest, and a blue flannel shirt underneath. Had a winchester 30/30 lever action open sight. No stupid scents, no bait, no trail cams or fancy hunting gear. It took me 4 hours from when i first saw them to get into a shooting position. Unfortunately, there wasn't a shooter bull in the bunch, and i snuck out undetected. Just because you use all these idiot scents and what not, don't assume others do. Hunters sold their souls years ago to the almightly dollar, I find it refreshing that some are starting to backlash.

I hunt bears over bait, and I hunt them with hounds. I have only shot 2 bears in 30 years of hunting for them, and I have probably passed on 50 or more. For all the reasons stated above, I find it to be an ethical way to hunt. In my state it allows us to hunt in the spring for big game. It is also very hard work with no guarantees.

It would be a very safe bet that you, and every one else here, have used in the past or will use in the future some form of bait. For Gods sake, native Americans have used different forms of bait so don't act so holier than thou about "bait".

Fair enough question MJR10. Better then the thread title!! ;) As for myself I hunt bears In northern Minnesota In big woods thick cover. Your lucky If you can see 20 yards ahead In most spots we bear hunt In. Using bait Is about the only way possible to be successful In getting a bear In the terrain I hunt In. I can gaurantee you that If we could not use bait the bear numbers In Minnesota would be so over populated that there would be nuisance bear problems everywhere. It would be Impossible to do a spot and stock and there Is by no means close to enough bear to have success with calling them using predator calls. I've been Involved with bear hunting/baiting all my life (35 years) and have been bear hunting since 1989. I've shot 9 bear In 20 years of hunting them with a bow. It's not nearly as easy as allot of people think, at least not In Minnesota. I've been out west elk hunting 6 different years and I always buy a bear tag when I'm out there. Every year I've been there I've been successful In doing a spot and stalk on a bear but so far none have been shooters for me. Honestly my odds have been better doing spot and stalks then hunting over bait. Terrain Is the key thing here on what tactics one needs to use to be successful.

You bet they did!! The Indians used every tactic possible to make sure meat was put on the table, they had no choice In the matter.

My problem isn't in baiting per say for bear in certain areas, it is in the proliferation of gimicks and gadgets that attempt to sway the odds in favor of the hunter. I have killed many animals with scoped rifles. This year, for what ever reason, I saw my 30/30 in the gun safe, unused for 15 years, and I pulled it out. I have no sling or scope, just carry it in my hands, and I love it. I just throw on some wooleys and a flannel and go, it's liberating. I am slowly rejecting all the "modern" equipment and tatics, and moving back to the basics. I believe in my heart that hunters are ruining the sport, not the antis. I have lost a lot of respect for the hunting community over the last few years based on what I have seen all over the country. The simplicity and beauty of the outdoors has been commercialized, and Joe Blow hunter is leading the charge, and I hate him for it.

I think this is a fair and accurate post. The only alternative I see is for bait hunting to be banned, then wildlife officals kill off access bears, which is not a viable option. I think one has to understand that in certain areas bating is the only option available to keep populations under control. I accept the argument that we live in a different world than 100 years ago, and the 'natural' balance of nature is hard to achieve when artificial food is readily available due to modern agricultural practices, and in many instances, livestock for predators. I also think that threads of this nature are valuable and more discussion needs to be had and pondered on the current treads in hunting and the future of the sport. We have more than enough "is this gun big enough" threads. Time for some serious discussion within the hunting ranks about the direction hunting is going.

I live in a state where it is illegal to bait (food baiting) any wildlife. I elk hunt only for the most part. I will use scent killer and urine scents. I have yet to figure out if it make any difference or not but I can tell you that in the mountains the wind is forever changing and swirls a lot. I also will take advantage of technology such as studying an area using Google Earth and use a GPS to get into areas that I want to get to. My feelings are after I plan my hunt all year, spend hours and hours preparing, and spend a lot of money, I want to increase my chances of filling my tag while staying completely legal. If I'm not successful, I will still have had a great time trying.

All of that said, it's still hunting and not killing. I haven't been hunting elk for very long but the majority of my trips were unsuccessful; I only killed one elk. I'm still putting in 6 -12 round trip miles a day on foot. If I get an animal, it coming out on my back, not a 4 wheeler. I hunt and do the things I do while hunting for myself, not anyone else. I can still have a great time hunting without killing anything too and at the end of the season I can say I gave it my best.

People need to do what they are comfortable with. I stay within the laws of CO. and can care less what others think about me using scents and such.

I don't put much focus on the TV hunting shows. There are a lot of different levels of ethics across the board from show to show. Success on some shows is a kill and success on others is a great hunt. It's obvious when someone gets off a plane and goes shoot an animal on private property that someone has been tracking for the last week to get the kill and make the show and make the host outfitter look good. Those aren't the ones I enjoy watching. I'd much rather watch the shows where they have been out for 5, 6, or 7 days hunting all day and close the deal at dark on the last day or don't even close the deal at all because that is how it goes for most of us in the real world and I appreciate what they went through because I have experienced the same.

MJR10, I'm not criticizing you for your opinion, you are certainly entilted to it. I just wanted to share my view point on how I hunt and the tactics I use.

Bait in California is illegal and we generally hunt them with hounds. A couple of years ago a local outdoor writer voiced similar concerns over hunting bear with dogs with tracking collars and shooting them out of trees. Both bait and dogs allow the hunter to see the bear before shooting and offers the option to pass on the animal for whatever reason. You have a legitimate question and this type of hunting may not be for you. Frankly, I don't have a problem with the vast majority of hunting methods (maybe except the remote computer aimed rifle thing they had a few years back). Next thing you know we'll be wearing loin cloths and driving them off of cliffs.

Do you hunt with a rifle and telescopic sight????

Seems too easy to me. Why oh why would you? Please justify how that is not giving you an unfair advantage.

To use your own words: "but maybe get educated as to why a rifle/telescopic sight is a good thing and "needed or required" to take a free ranging animal."

"Thus ends the lesson": Sean Connery from the Untouchables.

Wow, excellent post CC!!! I bolded out some of what you said and couldn't agree more. Great post!!

Lots of options in this game called "hunting"

Just because some states, etc... allow it and use it, doesn't mean it's the only way to get it done.

Wasn't crazy about the idea of hunting over a bait for black bear myself, so I went on a spot n stalk bear hunt instead.

TV shows want to see bears, and show shots/kills, so I'm not surprised a show would hunt over bait, also in alot of spots in canada baiting seems to be the standard, so not surprised there either.

Bear baiting is legal here an probably needed in most of the state to have much selection on what one shoots. The state requires a bear baiting clinic as part of the requirement to bait, and I've fulfilled the requirements.I've baited on several occasions, but have never killed a bear over bait.Just not what I had in mind ,but I've killed bears for meat small targets of opportunity,, fall berry bears. If it were illegal to bait bears here the kill would be much smaller to the determent of all prey species.Black bears are very good at what they do,I've seen them working deer in S.E. Alaska, moose in South central,sheep in Chugach park. An bears don't waste time on efforts that don't result in food. The debate over baiting will never be over but please remember ,whatever it is that trips your trigger will be viewed by some as wrong. Just how much we all are willing to give up. maybe hunting from a tree stand. Wearing camo,using a rifle, or even a newer M.L. I remember Pa was flintlock only for years. If we don't stand together we will hang alone.
Alex

I can see a point here but that is why this is called the USA. We have choices. The only bad thing about baiting is that if your state allows it and others hunters, hunting neighbors and such use it your at a dis advantage.

True enough, but those guys didn't have the option of picking up a pack of brats and a couple pounds of ground chuck at the supermarket on the way home if they got skunked. I'm sure there was lots of competition along with bragging rights for the guys who could bring home the most meat. But it wasn't a "sport" for those guys like it is for us.

There is a sticky at the top of this forum titled "DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY...OF HUNTERS... "

I think many of you might do well to read it.

It's kind of interesting that that post was made back in 2007 and it was a result of this same exact arguement.

"Hunting" over bait isn't hunting and if your "Wife" has an Adam's Apple it ain't marriage...........................

For all those that are anti gadgetry please click the following link to see what the taxes on gadgetry go to. After reading the link feel free to let me know how this is bad.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusfd16usc669.htm

I do agree that the content of some of the shows is ethically questionable, however the outcome of sales and the dreaded advertisement does play a key role in wildlife management and offers us some of the opportunities that we see today.

Outfitters seem to get blasted equally as bad. Though I do not use them I respect them highly as lobbiasts when it comes to open hearings on fish and game issues. They are ALWAYS present and often not only plead their case to state comissioners, but also commonly back the every day hunter when they can so that a greater voice is heard.

The picture is often much bigger than what people percieve.....And this goes for bear baiting too!

Instead they watched over there old kills and stalked up on the bear. Same exact thing (baiting), different approach.

It's not a sport with me either, It's hunting and It's a way of life I cannot do without. I don't have to hunt to put meat on the table like the Native Americans had to so yes I see your point saying It's a "sport" but not to everyone It Is.

Very accurate statement for just about everything in life.

I do not hunt bears because I do not like the meat.. I do have friends that hunt as well as guide other hunters as well.. Hunting bear with bait is legal here and it should be IMO.. The bears are not dragged to the bait and tied up there for someone to shoot.. That is hardly the case at all.. In fact some bears will not even come close to the bait at all. Some will only at night as they are nocturnal in nature. We have our problems with problem bears coming into towns and getting into trash cans and attacking farm animals ect...
The woods is thick up here for the most part and to even see a bear without baiting you are lucky. Let alone a cub that could be hiding close by and you shoot the sow without knowing about the cub or cubs.. The cubs wouldn't make it threw thier first winter up here. So hunting over bait you get to be more selective. You get to see the cubs most of the time showing up at the bait before mom comes along.. Also a lot of the hunters being guided like to wait for a big bear to show itself before shooting any at all. This year was a great year for baiting as there was no berries for them to eat. Still alot of hunters saw all kinds of bears but went home empty handed because of wanting to get that big bruiser instead.. Some have heard that big bruiser snapping his jaws and never showed itself. Those folks were scared out of thier wits about those experiences. They would call the guide back in to help them get out of there because of all the noise the bear was making. He just wouldn't show himself..
So the idea of it being simple and easy is not what it is all about at all.. But to each thier own in how they choose to hunt.. Some use dogs to run them with up here as well.. Some dogs get killed and others will have a bear treed.. It is still the same though for as far as being selective about it..

Exactly the way it is.. United we stand and apart we all fall...

Well stated, Phil.

Some folks just need to stay in thier parks and dream what a wonderful world it would be.. They just can't understand any logic to anything at all..

I guess you can not read either or you would already know I do not hunt bear period.. However it is pretty ignorant on your part to explain to everyone here all about hunting bears over bait or any other way.. You simply have no idea about it at all.. For as far as closing my yap goes guess again.. I am thinking you should take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth so you read what is being stated...

Ethical norms are not absolute, and they aren't the same from species to species or from area to area. I don't happen to hunt any species over bait. I do hunt ducks over decoys, however, and I use a duck call. Couldn't this be considered to be equivalent, in some sense, to hunting over bait? An unnatural incentive to draw the prey within shooting range? You could argue attracting elk with calls is similar, although different in degree, from hunting over bait. It is really a silly question to debate. If you don't like it, don't do it. It isn't illegal, at least not in all hunting venues.

Perhaps your objection is that you don't consider hunting over bait "sporting." Maybe these hunters aren't in it for "sport." There are other reasons for hunting than the "sport." You may want to eat bear meat. You may want a bear rug. You may want a bear skin coat. Is killing an animal for sport a more valid reason than these reasons? I don't see it that way. And if you have a valid bear license, baiting is legal but not "sporting," I've got no problem with someone taking a bear over bait if they want to eat the meat and/or make good use of the skin.

Kinda makes you wonder how all of the anti bait folks feel about fishing, ........ even flies can be viewed as "bait." As a couple of other posts pointed out, if you have the tag, the activity is legal, and you want to do it, have fun. If you don't want to hunt over bait, .... don't. That simple.

I can see why some question this. When all you've done is hunt deer your entire life you start thinking that you can hunt all big game species this way.

Bears are shy, almost 100% nocturnal, and have a low population density compared to deer and elk in most areas. This makes them next to impossible to hunt via spot and stalk.

Yes we could say too bad so sad, you can hunt them if you want but no bait. The problem is that bears eat A LOT during the summer months gearing up for winter. If they are over populated then they tend to start invading urban areas and digging through your trash. Nobody wants that so it's critical that hunters have success to manage population levels and baiting is one of a few proven mothods to take a bear.

I guess the answer to your question is you have to understand the species to understand why we hunt them the way we do.

Very well put!!!

"Originally Posted by rather_be_huntin
I can see why some question this. When all you've done is hunt deer your entire life you start thinking that you can hunt all big game species this way.

Bears are shy, almost 100% nocturnal, and have a low population density compared to deer and elk in most areas. This makes them next to impossible to hunt via spot and stalk.

Yes we could say too bad so sad, you can hunt them if you want but no bait. The problem is that bears eat A LOT during the summer months gearing up for winter. If they are over populated then they tend to start invading urban areas and digging through your trash. Nobody wants that so it's critical that hunters have success to manage population levels and baiting is one of a few proven mothods to take a bear.

I guess the answer to your question is you have to understand the species to understand why we hunt them the way we do."

I agree, Ditto!

well hell lets get the stone and sling shot then. the indians also ran the darn buffalo off the cliffs in droves.

Even if baiting bears was legal here, I probably wouldn't do it. I really like hunting them by spot and stalk. My biggest problem is I will see 10 or so grizzlies per season but only 1-2 black bears.

I felt the same way until I went to SASK.
 

I sat in a tree for 3 days and nothing happened! But when there appeared a bear out of nowhere, without a sound, right under me! It was awsome! your heart pounds like nothing else. not my 390 bull or my 186 white tail, like nothing else. I am totally hooked on bear hunting.

I grew up in Montana where bear baiting is illegal. The terrain is generally very open and bears can be effectively hunted by spot and stalk. I always assumed that bear baiting was just laziness because I didn't know any better. Then I moved to central Alaska where the terrain is dominated by jungles of boreal forest and spot and stalk black bear hunting is almost impossible. Bear baiting is legal there because it's the only effective way to manage the bear population. I tried it and I've found if there's one thing that it isn't, that's easy. Most people have the misconception that you just throw some donuts on the ground and every bear for ten miles comes in runnings. Wrong!!! It can often take weeks before bears start to hit your bait and it has to be constantly monitored and replenished in order to keep them interested. Then add to the fact that you often have to sit the bait until late at night (it doesn't really get dark until 2-3am in central AK during the spring) and the bugs are horrible.

The bottom line is don't come up with a preconceived notion that something is easy just because it looked easy on TV. There's any number of things that look like a cake walk on the boob tube, but in real life they're much more difficult. Having put my wrong impressions of bear baiting aside and tried it I can confidently say it's about 10 times more difficult than going out and shooting a whitetail in a farmer's field.

AK Jeff