Three Shots to put a Bull down.
05-13-2003, 02:07 PM
#21
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greenville SC USA
Posts: 656
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
Sorry Tim,
All we have is perfect hunters here. They never miss, always spot-on. They all use huge caliber rifles. No deer has ever run from a good hit with a huge caliber, right? And all their lives, they have only taken broadside shots. They all have a degree in law, so everything you say will be dissected to make them sound smarter. Oh, and did I add that they are well pronounced in the english language? There will be no interpretations of the word " irresponsible" . DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
All we have is perfect hunters here. They never miss, always spot-on. They all use huge caliber rifles. No deer has ever run from a good hit with a huge caliber, right? And all their lives, they have only taken broadside shots. They all have a degree in law, so everything you say will be dissected to make them sound smarter. Oh, and did I add that they are well pronounced in the english language? There will be no interpretations of the word " irresponsible" . DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
05-14-2003, 07:48 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
JetBlast,
That is some good healthy sarcasim there, especially regarding the " perfect hunter" standard! I like that part!
BTW, to prevent confusion, I still think it is still preferable for folks to take a minute, study the whole thread so they REALLY know what is being discussed, think of a response that is relevant to the thread, and then " say (write) what they mean and mean what they say" so the rest of the world doesn' t have to guess. [:' (]
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
That is some good healthy sarcasim there, especially regarding the " perfect hunter" standard! I like that part!
BTW, to prevent confusion, I still think it is still preferable for folks to take a minute, study the whole thread so they REALLY know what is being discussed, think of a response that is relevant to the thread, and then " say (write) what they mean and mean what they say" so the rest of the world doesn' t have to guess. [:' (]
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
05-14-2003, 08:39 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton Square NJ USA
Posts: 557
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
It may be a good idea to remember in Tim' s part of the world these animals are considered pests by many, and are often culled out of helicopters. Chamois, Thar, Reds, etc, all gunned down like a slow Iraqi, to prevent damage to the environment. Hard to equal that scenario to a much coveted New Mexico trophy tag.
05-14-2003, 11:09 AM
#25
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 823
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
I like head shots on game, killed my first elk with a .270 and a head shot between the eyes. He dropped in his tracks. Killed a couple of whitetails too - head shots. Heads shots are by and large they drop or they run away unscathed - clean misses. How many body shot deer get away every year ? Think about that before calling head shots irresponsible.
05-14-2003, 12:02 PM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton Square NJ USA
Posts: 557
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
Zelany, I would suspect a lot of those deer and elk that ran off " unscathed" , did so with their jaw or nose shot off. Certainly not an ethical shot.
I was just pointing out that f Tim and his buddies don' t get them, head shot or not, a scenario awaits where the anmal would probably wish they had been shot in the head.
I was just pointing out that f Tim and his buddies don' t get them, head shot or not, a scenario awaits where the anmal would probably wish they had been shot in the head.
05-14-2003, 04:38 PM
#27
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
Will throw in a few additional comments, as this thread seems to have created a bit of interest.
The bull in question was moving down hill, and lower part of body was obscured by scrub i.e. head & neck were the only visable target, for the first two shots.
Kev had a genuine concern for his safety. No handy trees to climb.
The first shot entered near right eye (See photo) and exited just below left coronet, exit wound was about inch and half in diameter. There was, as already mentioned, massive brain damage, enough, one would think, to have a very dead animal. Hard to argue that the shot placement was not in the " So-called" right place.
Kev is a very experienced hunter and an accurate marksmen, he is not a promoter of head shots, and seldom takes them. Cool under pressure-Yes. On the very same day he shot another bull, with a very well placed broadside shot, this bull ran on for about 150 yards. I was there. We had considerable difficulty locating him in thick scrub, but he was very dead when found. Heart and a significant portion of lungs were in tatters, but the bullet did not break any leg bone, only rib.
The thread was not intended to promote headshots, I am no fan, and like others have seen the after-effect, when they go wrong. The intention was to discuss the adrenalin effect.
I would hope that no young/new hunter would take the discussion here as a green light, on headshooting.
They have a Very Limited application at close quarters and only when a hunter is Very Confident in marksmenship and rifle/bow' s placement.
Zealazny: Thank you for your honesty. I think there are plenty on this board who have taken headshots, but prefer not to enter the discussion. However I don' t think the 50/50 outcome is entirely accurate i.e. dead or miss. There' s a lot of opportunity to shoot badly on a headshot as the target area is only a very small percentage of the head area, lets see, at an estimate 3 square inches out of 100 square inchs of target.
6ptsika (Do you hunt sika?) Your facts on NZ are correct. All big game here are classified by our government as noxious, and have pest status. Isn' t that ridiculous. There are plenty of us who are actively lobbying to change this situation. However even though this is the case, and we have access to a large volume of hunting, this is not a justification to take any less care with shot placements, than your once a year New Mexico Elk hunter. I assure you that there is just as must importance placed on humane harvesting here, as there is in your country.
Jetblast: The smiley faces assist a little in clarifying what you' re trying to say. I think I know where you' re coming from, there is a certain sort of attitude from some contributers on this board. I think it is known as " Dualism" i.e. where only one point of view counts, rather than discussion.
Personally i' m glad there is some diversity in the world.
EKM. Hear..Hear.. I agree make it clear what your message is.
Anybody doing any hunting lately???
The bull in question was moving down hill, and lower part of body was obscured by scrub i.e. head & neck were the only visable target, for the first two shots.
Kev had a genuine concern for his safety. No handy trees to climb.
The first shot entered near right eye (See photo) and exited just below left coronet, exit wound was about inch and half in diameter. There was, as already mentioned, massive brain damage, enough, one would think, to have a very dead animal. Hard to argue that the shot placement was not in the " So-called" right place.
Kev is a very experienced hunter and an accurate marksmen, he is not a promoter of head shots, and seldom takes them. Cool under pressure-Yes. On the very same day he shot another bull, with a very well placed broadside shot, this bull ran on for about 150 yards. I was there. We had considerable difficulty locating him in thick scrub, but he was very dead when found. Heart and a significant portion of lungs were in tatters, but the bullet did not break any leg bone, only rib.
The thread was not intended to promote headshots, I am no fan, and like others have seen the after-effect, when they go wrong. The intention was to discuss the adrenalin effect.
I would hope that no young/new hunter would take the discussion here as a green light, on headshooting.
They have a Very Limited application at close quarters and only when a hunter is Very Confident in marksmenship and rifle/bow' s placement.
Zealazny: Thank you for your honesty. I think there are plenty on this board who have taken headshots, but prefer not to enter the discussion. However I don' t think the 50/50 outcome is entirely accurate i.e. dead or miss. There' s a lot of opportunity to shoot badly on a headshot as the target area is only a very small percentage of the head area, lets see, at an estimate 3 square inches out of 100 square inchs of target.
6ptsika (Do you hunt sika?) Your facts on NZ are correct. All big game here are classified by our government as noxious, and have pest status. Isn' t that ridiculous. There are plenty of us who are actively lobbying to change this situation. However even though this is the case, and we have access to a large volume of hunting, this is not a justification to take any less care with shot placements, than your once a year New Mexico Elk hunter. I assure you that there is just as must importance placed on humane harvesting here, as there is in your country.
Jetblast: The smiley faces assist a little in clarifying what you' re trying to say. I think I know where you' re coming from, there is a certain sort of attitude from some contributers on this board. I think it is known as " Dualism" i.e. where only one point of view counts, rather than discussion.
Personally i' m glad there is some diversity in the world.
EKM. Hear..Hear.. I agree make it clear what your message is.
Anybody doing any hunting lately???
05-15-2003, 10:19 PM
#29
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,049
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
Tim,
I can honestly say that I' ve never taken a head shot, it' s one of the most moveable parts of the body. I try to wait it out for a shot behind the shoulder or one in the chest. If the animal walks away, I get to go after him another day & I have the great experience of getting to see the animal in the wild. I' m not going to judge someone for the shot that they took b/c I wasn' t in their shoes to make the decision. People alot of times can say I would' ve done it or I wouldn' t have done it.........you just don' t know until you are in that situation.
I can honestly say that I' ve never taken a head shot, it' s one of the most moveable parts of the body. I try to wait it out for a shot behind the shoulder or one in the chest. If the animal walks away, I get to go after him another day & I have the great experience of getting to see the animal in the wild. I' m not going to judge someone for the shot that they took b/c I wasn' t in their shoes to make the decision. People alot of times can say I would' ve done it or I wouldn' t have done it.........you just don' t know until you are in that situation.
05-17-2003, 09:59 AM
#30
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 823
RE: Three Shots to put a Bull down.
I' ve been thinking ... I can' t think of a single animal I head shot at (squirrel, rabbits, deer, elk) that I didn' t either drop in their tracks (or out of the trees) or miss. Maybe you guys just shoot really poorly ? 
Tim - keep on head shooting if you can make the shots - save meat and drops them in their tracks ...
Tim - keep on head shooting if you can make the shots - save meat and drops them in their tracks ...