npaden

Okay, with all the discussion going on lately about using an outfitter or not using an outfitter I thought I would pose a question to the group and get some thoughts on the subject of using an outfitter on public land.

There are several states that are closer to me than where I grew up in Montana, or even where I hunted this year in Wyoming, but I've never hunted those states and don't have a good feel for where the best spots to hunt would be.

I don't need an outfitter to help me hunt or to help me pack out my animals, but it would be nice to have someone help me get a better idea where the game would be at certain times of the year. There are some outfitters who do semi-guided or drop camps in addition to their full guided options and I thought that might be something to consider.

My ethical dilema is if I used an outfitter one year and they showed me the areas on public land where the animals were hanging out, would it be right to go there the next year or even a few years later and not use them as an outfitter but go in DIY?

To me it seems like it wouldn't be the right thing to do. If my friend shows me a honey hole that they hunt on public land, I'm not going to go back in there without my friends permission.

Just curious what others might think on the subject.

CAelknuts

If I hunt with an outfitter, and I've done that a lot as well as a ton of DIY hunting; I wouldn't go back where he took me, even several years later. If you want him to provide a scouting service, be honest with him and tell him so. If you want a guided hunt and all that entails, then hire a good one and enjoy your hunt.

finnbear

I kinda look at it this way if it's on public land, and U pay a guide to show U the ropes then it's open season after that!! same as a friend showingU his honey hole if he did want U hunting or fishing ithe would not have shown it to U!!!!![&:]

homers brother

I think that's why some of the better outfitters hunting on public land are taking you into statutory Wilderness Area - it's SO difficult to get you there that there's little to no chance you're going to be able to collect the pack animals, etc. required to DIY.

If the area you wish to hunt is public and it's reasonable for you to get there on your own, then it's open season as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise, you're implying that the outfitter has some kind of exclusive use of that particular piece of public property. They'd love for that to be true,and in factalmost had legislation introduced (Larry Craig- ID) that would allow them that restriction.

I kind of have issues though with the term "outfitter" and "guide". Not so much with those who haul you back into difficult parts of the country under primitive conditions (i.e. take risks, work their arses off), but the ones who pick you up at theBest Western in the morning in their F350 crew-cab, hand you a cup of hot Starbucks, then drive you out to Farmer Fred's field and coach you as you shoot a deer on a plot or salt lick. Rather than calling them "outfitters", they more deserve a term like "shooting chauffeur". I'm sure people would still pay themto do it.

Coues1

I have to tell you, it would be wrong, I see this point from two different perspectives.
1. If you guide this is his way of supporting his family, and although it is on state land he still has to support them.Now speaking of my buddy who is a guide, all state land is his and if he has clients down no one should hunt the area his clients are in, even though we used to hunt those same areas before he became a guide and is all public lands.
2. It is public land and my suggestion if you know how to hunt, do some research on the area via local biologists, sportsman stores, and ranchers and farmers, they will point you in the right direction, and bypass the outfitter all together, to avoid any conflict.

Colorado Luckydog

If it's public land I would show guided hunters the same respect I would any other hunter, no more. I sure wouldn't stay out of the area because they were with a guide.If I did use a guide and he takes me to a good public hunting spot, he definately runs the risk of me coming back alone or with buddies. Public ground is here for us to use and we all need to make the best of it.

MTMountainMan

I think that part of using an outfitter is gaining the knowledge that they give you, including when, where, and how. Year to year elk (especially) use different areas and outfitters are up on this current situation. Gaining a spot is great, but you just don't know unless you can scout it beforehand if animals are using it this year. Summer rainfall,fall weather, and pressure change these spots, so it's not a sure thing. I don't think it's unethical. Just make sure you use an ethical outfitter. There are some bad ones out there and giving them your money is unethical.

tsoc

I wouldn't go back in to an area that an outfitter took me in even if it was public land.It just doesn't seem right to me.That is how they earn their living and in my opinion to use their knowledge and pay for it once and then to go back and hunt it again year in and year out is the wrong thing to do.I am sure the outfitter would be pissed if they saw your smiling face in there the next year after they had taken you in.
Have you done any thing illegal? No you havn't but not very honorable in my opinion.As it relates to bringing a friend or guest in to an area that I have scouted and hunted.If they came back in with out my permission our friend ship would be over.That a low life thing to do in my opinion.
If you want to DIY out of state and you have hunted with a guide previously,and the guide was honorable I would suggest staying out of their guiding territory.You can call a states guides and outfitters association for the guides territory.
Plenty of ground out in most of the western states,there is no reason to not to find your own area's.

MTMountainMan

tsoc, I see what you're saying and I think you have a very valid point. The truth is, most outfitters are not going to put you in places you can DIY reasonably without horses. However, most outfitters don't operate in secret places anyway. Here in MT, it seems outfittersgo to the same places everyone knows aboutand just push back 10-15 miles. Can't do that on foot. Or, they'll have leased private property you can't get on anyway.

tsoc

Mtmountainman, my comments were not directed at you specifically,just the topic.Definitely not practical for guy's to get that deep without a huge commitment of horses and equipment.
I hunt in Idaho every year for whitetails.We go unguided.There is one outfitter in the town we hunt out of and we are on decent terms with him.There definitely is an attitude of the entire area being his even though it is all federal,state or Potlatch land for the most part.We will not purposely go in to area's that he is running hunters in.He runs guys around on four wheelers and set's them in tree stands.We all sneak and still hunt with the occaisional sits over funnels or abundant sign.We purposely go in to area's you can't get a four wheeler in to.We never have any problems with this outfitter,the locals hate the guy.