Elk Ranches...
 

Seriously how do people pay upwards of 10,000$ to shoot big bulls off of these ranches. I've heard quite a bit about them and from what I've heard for the most part it's drive out pick what elk you want to shoot then pull the trigger. How can anyone seriously enjoy that? It's like just driving out into the pasture and shooting a cow. I guess they just want a good mount to go above their fireplace and are to lazy to go kill an elk the right way?

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

[:@]

I think that covers it???

Really.....How do people pay $50,000 to for a Govnr's tag or tothe RMEF for a raffle tag?????Hunting????? I don't know ....Im bafffled.Obviously an "Elk ranch" hunt go's way beyond fair chase.But at least you know what it is.If that sounds right???
I honestly have more of a problem with organizations like the RMEF, MDF etc.. Not for the conservationendof it. Don't get me wrong.But forthe fact that people give to these organizationsyear after year ....Go to the banquets,donate and yetwill never have an opportunity to hunt the land that we supposedly helped to conserve/preserve unless we are the highest bidder????? That to me wrong !!!!!
Maybe off topic a bit......Some things just get me.

Bill

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Clinty, you'll get complete agreement from me on the high fenced game farm issue. While I have no problem with a man like the governor's tag holder going out on public land and killing a bull that any other tag holder had a chance at, in fact that many other tag holders had a chance to kill, I completely despise these farms and would never give a second of my time to any pretender who kills an elk on one of these places and tries to say he's an elk hunter. All of the elk I've killed over the years - bulls, cows, spikes, raghorns and big bulls, have all been killed in fair chace hunts. I respect anyone who goes out and kills a free range elk, but these pretenders who shoot them behind high fences are not hunters in anyone's eyes (except perhaps, those of SCI's) "Estate" elk, give me an F'ing break!

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

horn porn - the ability to use money to buy very very larger antlered animals so people will oooooh and ahhhhhh over the horns .... greed, selfishness ....... horn porn

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Bill,
I am with you ao this one! There is no arguement that RMEF is the premier big game conservation org.. However, When it comes to hunting because you were the highest bidder.. That is not always right. If you have the money and wish to donate a **** ton then you should get an opportunity to hunt some "members only" grounds if you will.. But the small guy like me wants a chance too. The great thing about elk hunting or hunting in general is that everyone can do it. It shouldn't cost $10,000 or more to kill a bull. I will stick to public land DIY hunts!

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Yeaa it sucks, when you can hunt longer on public land, just because you have more money than the next guy!!

DM

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

DM, actually you have that backwards. It might suck when you can't hunt as long as someone else because you don't have as much money as the next guy. I doubt that it sucks to hunt longer because you have more money, if you're the guy with more money.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

So Stealthy, let me get this straight. Let's say I hunt elk in a fair chase effort, buton a private ranch, one that has no fences higher than a standard three strand barbed wire fence that is all over the west, and let's say I kill a bull that scores 386 on a five day hunt. You're saying that is "horn porn"?

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

CAelknuts more information is needed to be honest. The fence you described isn't a barrier to elk. You're hunting private lands so that tips things in your favor more so than public land animals but sure, that can be fair chase.

How about this - you say the high fenced areas are despicable, but if its a high fenced African hunt, is that more or less canned that paying Mossback and his 15 scouters to find the Spider bull for the shooter ?

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Let me start by saying I raise a few elk. I guess in the sceem of things I just hate guys lying about thier bull or whatever it is. If you pay to shoot one out of a high fenced pasture or 5000 acers of the thickest $hit around, say so. If it was taken off of a farmershay lot where the elk show up every day at 5:37pm and if you sit right here it will give you an 87 yard shot, say so.

I also respect the spike or raghorn killed on public ground a whole lot more than I do the monster taken in the haylot or behind a fence.

I guess I agree with the "pretender" statement. A bull behind the fence or in the haylot will always be just that, it's ok with me just don't make it out to be more than it is.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

WNYhunter let me also say I am 100% in favor of the legality of coming to your place and me paying you $$$$$$$$$ to shoot one of your biggest tamest bull elk

just like if I went to a bison farm and shot one, or a cattle farm and shot a steer



but it aint hunting

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

New law proposed. Any canned hunts (AKA shooting livestock behind a fence) are legal as long as the antlers have been cut off ahead of time. The "sport" can only have the meat. Without the antlers there probably won't be much killing....:D
Seriously though, I hate to see any of it happening. The amount of money someone will spend for a large set of antlers is getting ridiculous. The only thing it leads to is keeping the common man out of the game. In the past hunting permission in the mid west could be granted with a handshake. Now it has to have several thousand greenbacks with it. The costs associated with hunting have gone up faster than the price of gasoline last summer with no end in sight. Biologically speaking, the spread of CWD, blue tongue, brucellosis and other cervid communicable diseases will limit the influx of these wild game farms soon enough in most states. If any area thinks they are immune to the spread they have their heads in the sand.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Stealthy, having spent more than two months in the field, huntingin Zimbabwe and Botswana, your scenario is one I feel I can answer with some experience. All of my African hunting has been from tent camps on completely wild and open concessions. Not only were there no fences, there weren't many roads where I've hunted, either. That said, I think that many African hunting operations where they have high fences are plenty fair chase. Most of the high fenced operations are in South Africa, from what I've learned, and most of those properties are thousands or tens of thousands of acres in size. I have no doubt that they can hunt in a fair chase manner on large properties that are fenced around the perimeter. The primary reason they fence their properties, from what I understand, is to keep the game on their property, and with many thousands of acres, the animals are easily able to avoid the hunters. I'd have no problem with hunting on many of those properties, though I've never done it. I would not be inclined to hunt on a property with high fences that was anything less than thousands of acres but probably never will as I really love the experience of tent camping in the wild where you have leopards and other creatures of the night come through camp while you're sleeping. At various times, we've had lions in camp (they ransacked our kitchen while we all huddled in our tents), leopard tracks around the campfire in the morning when we got up for a cup of tea before heading out; an elephant that blocked our path between sections of a camp one time; as well as having the heck scared out of us by a cape buffalo bull that we surprised as we waked through some brush just 50 yards from our tents one time. That's the Africa that I love, and why I've chosenhunts where I can tent camp in the wild.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

stealthycatII, I agree with you all the way. It is not hunting, plain and simple. Mabey the bigger the area fenced (5000-10000 acres) the more real it seems but it is still a shoot not a hunt, you might just have to look a little longer but you know they are there.

Champlain Islander, now I think you are bringing your opinion into it. This is the USA, a legal activity is just that. You don't have to like it, but that is just the way it is. As far as the common man, hunting preserves aren't hurting us. Take a look around, it's called supply and demand. A rancher is going to get what he can as long as there are people willing to pay.

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You are right I am bringing in my opinion. I never claimed anything else. Supply and demand hunting will always have its followers on both sides of that fence. Those looking at taking a shortcut at harvesting a game animal and those looking at profiting on the backs of people lacking sportsmanship. If it is a legal activity then both sides have every right to do what they want. In some places canned hunting is illegal. The reasons vary but most recent anti canned hunting laws were enacted to prevent the spread of disease to the wild animals. There have been many documented cases of initial CWD infections first appearing in a game farm then spreading to adjacent wild animals not inside the fence. That scenario ocurred 2 years ago in your state (I assume you are from NY) in Oneida County. I personally would't kill an animal in a canned hunting situation. Then again the actual killing of an animal isn't the necessaryend result of my hunts. I go for the chase and the chance at becoming one with nature not one with a fence. None of my hunts have been a failure. Sometimes I have been rewarded with game and other times all I have is the memory. I just saw in the daily rag that Vermont will conduct public hearings to decide how best to deal with the spread of canned hunting operations in this state. They are being proactive in an attempt to keep CWD out of here.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Champlain Islander,

I think we are alot alike. I enjoy hunting but the taking of an animal is just a bonus for. Cwd, yes we had a case here in NY. I believe it is all around, but being in less than 1% of the population makes it tough to find unless the animal is behind a fence. Do you know where CWD started and what it is?

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

CWD was first identified as a fatal wasting syndrome in captive mule deer in Colorado in the late 1960s and in the wild in 1981. It was recognized as a spongiform encephalopathy in 1978. It is similar to Mad cow" disease (bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE) or the human variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. it is almost always fatal and until recently only showed up in the old hot areas of theRocky's and Canada. In the past 5 years it has moved to a few other states such as NY and Wisconsin where they tried to stop it by systematically killing all the deer within a 287 square mile radius. It didn’t stop the spread and when it shows up it is a game changer for both the F&W departments and the hunters. Once it shows it will always be there. I often hunt NY and since CWD showed it is illegal to bring a whole animal back to Vermont. If I get a deer there I have to butcher it there and can only bring deboned meat, cleaned skull cap and antlers back to Vermont. Since theinfection can be passed between animals, Vermontmade it illegal to bait deer to minimize the chances of anoutbreak from spreading. Making captive deer or elk ranches illegal will probably happen here as well.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Good luck on your elk hunt. i'm jealous, wish I was going with you. I have made that trip a few times and hopefully going next year. I love hunting in big sky country. nothing like it. Well, if you ever make down near buffalo and want to hunt for a weekend, let me know.

RE: Elk Ranches...
 

Thanks WNY. One of my best hunting buds actually lives in Filmore NY (south of Rochester). He has gone with us on 3 trips to Newfoundland and the past 2 years to Colorado. We are leaving Vt tomorrow at 4am and will be picking him up at about noon. Got to try and make it near the Indiana border on day 1 though so we will be moving.