bald9eagle

First, let me say that this is my first post to any forum on Hunting.net, so forgive me for any uh-oh's that I might commit. I have learned that each message board that you go to has a personality and a core group of long time posters all its on. You often learn about many "unwritten" rules taht different boards have.

Here's the deal. I have long wanted to escape North Alabama for some well earned time in one of the Rocky Mtn. states chasing some of North Americas finest game. My father in-law has been to Colorado three or four times on hunting trips on public land and has taken some decent bulls and even a nice muley. Seeing those mounts on his wall have kept a fire burning in me for several years now.

My hunting partner (my soon to be 12 yr old daughter) and I have both talked about going after elk, muleys, or sheep (though this one would be rather difficult for her), but I only have a general idea of where to start.

1. Where would be a good place to start for the two of us? We hope that this isn't our only trip out West, but if it is we want it to be a quality hunt. Physically, we are both in great shape and I would like to go after she turns 13 (Jan. '09) or when she is able to handle a larger bore rifle. In other words, terrain is not an issue.

2. Where is the best place to find a good outfitter? You can only tell so much about outfitters on the internet. Is there a site other than this one that will rate or otherwise refer good outfitters? I have seen both sides of the outfitter matrix, good and bad. I don't want to spend a ton and get burned.

3. Is an outfitter even neccessary? I know that good planning and outdoorsmanship can make for a good experience. My only concern is not knowing where the animals tend to hang out.

4. What can I expect the $$$ extremes to be? I know that self-guided hunts can be cheaper and upper level lodges more expense. I hope for this trip to become an annual thing and want my other daughter and my wife (neither hunt) to be in a position to come with us. I would have to cater to them as well and would not be against renting a cabin or such for the hunt.

5. When is the best time to hunt? I have done some archery hunting in the past, but have not hunted with a bow in several years. We would consider getting into archery hunting if it means better hunting, conditions, etc.

I'm sure that I'll think of more later, but that'll do for now. Thanks for any info you guys can give me.

Oh, and War Eagle (being from Bama doesn't exactly make me one of those Tiders!)

ShatoDavis

Wow you packed alot of questions in there. Lets just dive in shall we:
An Antelope hunt is a very good and often succesfull hunt to wet your western hunting appetite. You can do these relatively inexpensively. You can stay in a hotel in some small town and drive out each morning. Its an excellent hunt for youngsters as there is lots of game to choose from and very little "slow time". You wouldn't need an outfitter for this. You can do a little research and find that there are several units in Wyoming that have nearly 100% draw success. Many farmers will allow hunting for a minimal fee.

Ask people who know. You can ask here and I'm sure folks will give you opinions. If you know an outfitter you can ask if anyone knows of them. If you don't have anyone in mind ask for us to recommend one.

Its certainly not necessary, but in many cases its sure makes life easier. Success rates increase dramatically with an outfitter. But, DIY is extremely rewarding.

What are your finances like? Not to be nosey, but for an outfitted hunt your looking at a minimum of $3000 per person I would guess and the sky is the limit from there. So your looking at a minimum of $6000 per year for you and your daughter. If you can swing that then your golden. If your like me and that isn't an option, then you have to look into other options such as a do it yourself style hunt or going less often.
During legal shooting hours. I mean come on buddy. We can't answer that for you. You must answer some for yourself. Archery increases your odds of drawing but also decreases your odds of success. So you decide on that one.

Bob H in NH

Well sounds like you just started!!

Couple of questions to get you to the next step:

1) Price range. Pick it now. For fully guided elk hunts for example, they can be found for $3000/week on up to VERY high. With the higher price comes private land, bigger bulls etc. also keep in mind when you see an outfitters price it usually does NOT include licenses and they are expensive out west.

2) What animal(s) do you want to hunt? If school is a factor you might restrict it to August which I think means antelope, probably (guess here) lower end of the $$ scale and higher end of the success range.

3) Guided or not? Tightly couples with #1 and #2. If you are going deer/antelope hunting you will be familiar with what to do "after the shot" however, going for elk, are you ready for 800lbs of dead animal laying there? Guided also gets you knowledge of the animal, tactics, use of his equipment and his help getting the critter out of the woods. is a drop camp ok? fully guided is nice, but $$

4) Are you willing to wait for drawn tags, or over the counter only? Some states have OTC, others have draw.

As to how to find them? Good question, browse forums like this, huntinfo.com has outfitter reviews, as does bowsite.com. Are there local hunting/fishing shows over the winter you can go to (this is how I found the elk outfitter I've used).

Hunter_59

One thing to consider is each state has its own requirement for hunter safety certification.

Colorado: By Colorado statute, everyoneborn on or after January 1, 1949 who applies for a Colorado hunting licensemust have successfully completed an approved hunter education course.

Wyoming: Wyoming statutes "(a) No person born on or after January 1, 1966, may apply for and receive any Wyoming hunting license..."

New Mexico: No one under 18 years of age may hunt with a firearm without possessing a certificate proving that he/she has passed this or another state’s hunter education course.

Keep up the research! There is a wealth of information on the web, and each states site. If you're thinking of applying in a draw for one or more states, think about applying for a preference point in '08, which may mean the difference in drawing or not in '09. Also, keep tabs on the draw deadlines for each state, they start as early as Jan. and continue past April, depending on the state and the type of permit.

muley699

I would caution against adopting the attitude that terrain is not an issue. Terrain may be the single most important issue you face whether or not you go with an outfitter. I guided archery this year for an outfitter and we had hunter after hunter simply break down at the magical 3 day mark. One of the rifle guides had 7 out of 7 hunters fail to finish their hunt last year. If you are going after elk the hunting can be brutal beyond belief. Our spike camp started at 4am, and bed time was around midnite for 8 consectutive days. Thats 32 hours of sleep for 8 days, several miles of brutal terrain a day. Everybody thinks they can do it, few actually can. I myself could not have gone for a day 9, andI am acclimated and familiar with this area. I encourage you to seriously consider the terrain and duration of your hunt, and establish realistic parameters for yourself and daughter. In my expierence, most are neither physically or mentally ready for a rocky mountain alpine elk hunt.

homers brother

I'll second muley699's comment about terrain. Underestimating the enviroment is often the first step toward a tragedy. Enough said about that.

Antelope are generally pretty easy to hunt, and you may find some mule deer sharing the same range.

Elk are tough. They live in some pretty nasty places. Sheep are even beyond that in difficulty. They'll tax you to your limit.

You can be successful with a DIY hunt, of course your chances are often lower, but that's often due to the artificiality introduced by outfitters who lease private lands accessible by vehicle. I'm not a fan at all of hiring "guides" who simply lease private lands and provideshooters withexclusive access to animals seeking shelter from the higher hunting pressure on public lands. Outfitters specializing in hunting public "Wilderness Areas" are a different story.

IMO - the knowledge gained by DIY hunts outweighs whether or not you have something to hang on the wall, and any animal you harvest will mean more toboth of you. But, you might consider trying to hunt your first season with an experienced western hunter.

121553

Terrain and altitude and attitude are of concern depending on the specie hunted. I would always recommend a DIY hunt but I don't know if I would want to be dragging the wife and kid chasing elk in the unknown not knowing where they may lead you. Deer hunting and antelope hunting are hunts that you can set your own pace at and less strenuoious(sp?) than elk hunting. Take the wife and kid and do some homework on hunting stats and terrain cheqeing and if nothing esle, you all will see a lot of game and a good time spent with the family. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Bobby

BuckAlley

If your looking for a western style Elk hunt in Colorado I'd like to suggest Winterhawk Outfitters. I've spoken highly of them in many forums here. I've hunted with them, and have a future hunt alreadly booked. They are very accomodating. Family operated for over 20yrs. Its a base camp setup with outfitter style tents, wood stoves, eatting quarters, and all horseback riding to reach hunting destinations. Its not a easy hunt by no means, and some of the terrain you ride horses on can be hair raising. But their animals are excellent. Its absolutely beautiful country. They run summer horseback trips, and fishing trips. They are up on that mountain from May to Jan. So they really know their 2,500 sq mile area. They also run a guide school there. Well known hunting shows like Wild Outdoors w/Jay Gregory, Outfitters Journal, Antler King Outdoors, and Babe Winkleman have all had hunting shows with Winterhawk. Lee Lasoski from Gettin Close has also hunted at Winterhawk.
I did a archery Elk hunt with them last Sept. A father was there with his 2 sons about your daughters age. They also have a daily charge for other members that wish to just tag along. Theydo have a few tents setup just for couples. The tents were plenty cozy, and warm. Sometimes too warm. Cots w/matresses. They do have a shower, and laundry means. Outhouse for bathroom. I personally prefer a bowhunt over a rifle Elk hunt. Just becasue you get to witness the Elk rut more, bugling, being called in.
www.winterhawk.com

Painted Horse

Every year here in Utah we read the headlines about out of staters who made misjudgements and spent more time in the mountains than they planned on. Sometimes it turns deadly, sometimes just scary. If you don't know how to take care of yourself in the mountains, book a trip with an outfitter the first couple of times you come out west and learn how to take care of your self.

You may want to book a summer fishing trip for one of your first adventures. They usually cost less than a guided hunt. The weather is warmer and less demanding. Fishing on alpine rivers and lakes is less challenging physically than hunting, and you get to see and experience the mountains of the west. And it's much easier to feel like you were successful. Catch a few fish - your happy. Spend a week hunting and don't see an elk, you feel discouraged.

Decide how you will travel. If driving, you most likely will want to explore opportunities in New Mexico or Colorado since they will save a day or two of driving. If flying, you have more choices of which states to hunt.

Most western states now use a Point system to draw coveted tags, especially for public land. Utah is producing more trophey elk now than most states. But drawing one of the 1200 tags to hunt a mature bull in Utah requires 13-14 preference points and is climbing. If you don't draw a Limited entry tag, you are pretty much limited to spike hunting on public lands. Guides often team with private land owners and sell guide services along with their own allotment of tags. Meaning if you will pay the $3000-$10,000 for their services you can get one of their tags and plan to hunt this year rather than wait until you are lucky enough to draw a coveted tag.

Some states do offer over the counter mature bull tags. But over the counter tags usually equal smaller bulls and more hunting pressure and lower success rates.

Another point to consider. If you do a DIY hunt. How will you handle an elk if you are successful? They are big! I own horses. It cost me a lot of money to keep horses year round. When I go hunting, I want them available for my use. It always bugs me when I'm hunting to have somebody get lucky on a elk came and beg me to help them packtheir elk out. I like to help people. But if I've only got two-three days to hunt myself (then get back to work). I'm not very willing to spend my time and wear out my horses packing out somebody elses kill that they didn't plan for.

I remember a couple of years ago, talking one of my neighbors into applying for an elk tag, he was successfull indrawing a tagand came hunting with us. We helped him to shoot a nice elk. As he approached the downed animal, I watched as he was overwhelmed by where to start. I jumped in and helped him butcher the elk and pack it on my horses. He commented. "I've been hunting elk for years, hiking way back into back country areas with no idea of what was involved IF I ever was successful. Until now I never realized that I would never have been able to retrieve an elk by myself"

If you don't have the resources to pack out your kill, then maybe hiring a guide up front is a prudent thing to do. They know the mountains and can help you stay safe, they have the gear to make you comfortable in the back country, they often have access to tags with out winning the lottery, and they have the resources to get your game out of the mountains.

Like the posters above, I would recommend antelope as a good starting hunt in the west. Mule deer next and Elk as you want more chanllenges. Sheep will be your ultimate challenge. I am fortunate enough to have drawn a Desert Bighorn Sheep tag this year. I am doing it myself with out a guide. It is and will continue to be an extremely tough hunt. Requiring many days of pre-season scouting to learn the area and a lot of days actually hunting. I'm fortunate that for me the hunting unit is just a couple hours drive from home. But somebody from out of state would need a guide. I doubt they would have the time to fly in and spend the time needed for a DIY sheep hunt.

Some pictures from this falls sheep hunting. This area was 100* on Labor day. It was 26* this past Saturday

bald9eagle

First, thanks for the info.

I guess what I meant about the terrain is that we were both in good shape, and Caity has suprisingly good endurance for a girl her age. I wouldn't dream of carrying her too high up into the mountains, but we could handle a more moderate climb if needed. While it's no Rocky Mtn. peak, the local WMA that I turkey hunt on is absolutely full of relatively steep hills and hollows. I have hunted full weeks up there walking 3-5 miles per day up and down those hills. While there is no way it can compare to the altitude and terrain, it is a good "training grounds", if you will.

I guess my biggest fear is spending the money for an outfitter and getting burned. As I said above, I have been burned before, and that was for a cheap duck hunting trip. The guy had his 10 yr old son with him, (not that I am against that, it was just unproffesional) and somewhere during the hunt the little guy let his gun go off and shot up a couple of decoys. The guide apparently loved to hear himself blow a duck call as well and made more ducks flare than come in. I would be uncomfortable going after game that I am unfamiliar with, in a land that I am unfamiliar with. I am all for a DIY trip provided that I have some guidance on when, where, how, etc.

What Ihad initiallyenvisioned is lodging at a base camp, taking the pack horses up to a spike camp, and hunting out from there (your typical type trip). I guess what I should have asked (thanks for the antelope tip!) is what would be an idea, and inexpensive trip for a first timer.

Also, the when was more of a weather, game activity, kind of thing.Iknow that elk tend to move up or down depending on the time of year (I don't know which is which) and that the later you go the weather worsens. I want the highest opportunity possible for my daughter, even if it's just a small spike or 3x3. This would be far from a trophy hunt.

With several states, species, terrains, climates, guides, etc., etc. to choose from it can be confusing.