Yes, units 15 and 21are at or over the tageted herd size. I also mentioned herd structure. Which isa reference tothe mature bull to cow ratio, and distribution of the herd within an area. With low mature bull numbers, I will observe many loner cow groups, hence they are not being bred in Sept. This means that if bred 28 days later, their calves will be one month behind. This is often the case when you see those really small calves during hunting season. No need to even discuss the lack of mature bulls. Best Regards,

The Madras have never been a trophy elk area, there area too mainy roads and access for our bull to get much over 4 or 5 years old. Add to that a 30 day archery season and 10 day rifle bull season and if you find a 300 bull you better take it.
There are only a few gen lic. areas that will produce big bulls. Unless you draw a limited quota areaodds of getting a big bull is slim.
Bulls need 2 things to get big, Limited access and good feed. With 10 years of draught we are running short on both.

Yes, this is a TIRED topic. "Wyoming is bad if you're a nonresident", "Nonresidents should be afforded the same 'benefits' in Wyoming as the residents are".

Guys, in all seriousness, if hunting's SO dang important to you, then why don't you pack up your life, wife, and kids and move here? I mean, to hear some of you, this country is just overrun with trophy animals?! We're also overrun with lots of good-paying jobs in the oilfields and coal mines, not to mention train service on the BNSF or UP- that is, if you can put up with being on-call 24 hours a day, working night shifts, holidays, etc.?

I'm a believer in danger as nature's way of eliminating stupid people. Maybe heartless, but you go hunt, ski, backpack, or otherwise access statutory wilderness areas, there should be a "no rescue" clause attached. You get yourself in a jam, it's up to your buddies or the guy you hired to get your broken self out. Didn't hire someone? Hunting on your own? Well, the griz' and coyotes need to eat, too. Do I agree with your being required to have an outfitter? Not really. Do I care that much if you get yourself in a jam? Not really. Am I going to jump in my truck, put on my hiking boots, and help with the search? Not unless I'm already nearby.

I'ma resident and I no longer hunt wilderness areas for the simple fact that I can't afford a guide, nor do I own a horse. The last elk I shot in a wilderness area took me two very long, harddays to get out. I fish wilderness areas, but alimit of cutts weighs a lot less than an elk carcass.

When you're done complaining about this one, check Alaska out. You'll just LOVE their system. But, if you can afford to hunt Alaska, you can afford a guide.

x2

I tell my wife all the time that people need to die, this country is overcrowded. She generally rolls her eyes and calls me cold hearted shortly afterwards.

I don't agree with the ruling either. I find it an insult that I can survive 18 days in theback countryin Idaho, but need a person to help me out if I come to Wyoming so I don't get hurt.....That part stinks.

On another note, I would like to know how the ruling came about. I have followed topics that have been brought up here in Idaho and alot of times it is the outfitters who are present fighting for hunting rights. There is alot of activity that goes on that often times people don't know about. There very well could have been something that was saved in the process.

What I am getting at here, is that people should be involved in the legislative process whenever possible. If attending meetings isn't possible, there are ways to research what happened to bring the laws into effect. You may be surprised to find out that you are enjoying one of the benifits of this dreaded law.......Until then, if we want to hunt Wyoming wilderness area, we will have to hire a babysitter ;0)

Fortunately or unfortunately, the state OWNS the wildlife and legally gets to say how/when/by whom it gets hunted whether on wilderness, public, or private land.

Didn't say I agree with it, just don't see much that can be done with it unless Wyoming decides to change. It is a pretty transparent give away to the outfitters.

They sure don't "own" the wildlife. If that's the case, each time a motorist hits a deer, elk, or other, than the state should have to pay damages since they failed to keep "thier" wildlife off theroadways.

I'm guessing that the state actually "manages" the wildlife and there is no ownership involved. ????

According to the 10th amendment it is the states. And all the Wyoming statutes wildlife belongs to the state. Try and make them pay for any liablity! There are laws regarding that to!

Howler: Here is a link that appears to disagree with your statement: http://ipl.unm.edu/cwl/statbook/wyomin.html

Sure looks like the stateowns them to me.

There ya have it, the state says they own all wildlife, so heck, why not also have the say as to who can hunt them with/without someone holding your hand![8D]