leeklm

Yep, what he said...

stubblejumper

Same here.I use .257" bullets and up for deer sized game and .284" bullets and up for larger game such as elk and moose.In all cases,I want at least 2800fps muzzle velocity,with 3000fps even better.

younggun308

He's just talking about the goofballs that say they are confidant that they can take their .243 elk hunting.

James B

The 6.5x55 with the 140 grain Hornady at 2700 fps works very very well. I have never tried a 243 myself for game bigger than deer nor would I. However its sure been done plenty of times. I would use a 25-06 within its range limit and know several hunters that do. That is, if thats all I had.

Waterproof

The first two elk I killed were both with a .243. It isn't ideal and I wouldn't recommend it that is for sure. But it can do the deed if you do your part. I was young and it was the gun Ihad available at the time.

Dirt2

Dig down through the layers, and what I'm really, really getting at here is human reasoning processes. Do people ever change their minds?

My post a few weeks back was basically aimed at that point. It seemed (and seems) logical that one's "bottom line" caliber would have to drop at least one notch if the premium bullets were worth buying. Clearly the premium bullets are selling, and its likely that they're selling about equally to "big caliber" guys as anyone else. So why buy them if they don't change the equation just a little. I just wanted to see one person say, "wow you're right, maybe a guy would do fine to shoot elk with a 270 now, even though I had always said 280 was the minimum", or words to that effect. So far, I haven't heard that. People are still stuck on their ancient assumptions.

Swinging back in to the "velocity is the same, weight is the same" position is simply refusing to deal with the point. Clearly, bullet design should compensate in some way for raw statistics on energy, which is at best an approximation of "killing power".

Folically Challenged

I borrowed this one from the "270 WSM..." thread:

I view the bullet construction debate as being fairly akin to the caliber debate. The slope is so gradual that it's really tough to make statements that everyone, or many, or even SOME, will agree with. At some point, you have to set a limit. And that will be YOUR limit. After a couple o' seasons on this forum, it seems like setting a limit is the hardest thing for any of us to do!

Personally, I've found that I could spend my entire life debating calibers, &/or bullet construction... OR, I could make a well-reasoned choice, and get out to the range to become proficient with my particular setup, realizing there will still be legions of caliber & bullet partisans who will deride my decision.

I just bought a new rifle, to scratch an itch. And what I found was that new rifle really made me appreciate my old rifle much more.That old riflefits splendidly,it shoots really well, and I'm so comfortable with that setup that I can almost always put the bullets where they're supposed to go.

I'd argue that bullets are the same way. The new bullets are definitely cool, and they wouldn't be selling that well if they didn't live up to their promise in most cases. But given howlong it can taketo find a rifle/cartridge/bullet/ammo setup that works for you,I don't feel that itmakes sense to switch horses when you've got a proven winner.

Ifrequently try new bullets, but I don't see myselfdownshifting cartridges to see if I can get the maximum efficiency out of the bullet. Rather, I look at upgrading bullets to get the maximum efficiency out of my favorite cartridge (and rifle).

And that's just one more reason why people talk about me, and probably always will!

FC

James B

I think the premium bullets do make a difference in killing power or whatever one chooses to call it. I don't see them as a tool to make a marginal rifle a sufficient rifle. When it comes to rifles like the 270, it was a very adequate caliber which is made even better with the use of premium bullets. Bullet construction and sectional density are far more important to my choice of guns than caliber size. I would pick the 270 with a 160 grain bullet over a 300 Mag with a 100-110 grain bullet.

Dirt2

Good post. I own exactly one rifle. I think that's enough.

Keith Miller

just use a browning 7mm mag, see problem solved