|
Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
We've all seen the inevitable weekly post that starts the 2,000 pages of responses where everyone repeats the same opinion they've put down the past 10,000 times the same question was asked. It being a quiet time, I thought I'd try a new spin on this topic.
How do the new premium bullets (Swift Sciroccos, Nosler Accubonds, Barnes Tripleshocks, etc.) affect the question? Specifically I'm addressingthe 300 WinMag-or-bust for elk crowd, those of you who think we 270 shooters are e-ville (Austin Powers reference, there). Do the new premium bullets give you pause to reconsider your previous opinions? Do you ever reconsider any opinions? If you will not allow that premium bullets have changed the landscape a bit, then let me ask two more questions? Are you using premium bullets in your miracle shoulder cannon? If so, why? |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Old 180 or 200 grn. Core-Lokt soft points in my .300 Win Mag and I'll take on anything on the planet, Jabba the Hut included! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Gonna take it over to the thousand yard rangenext week,now that I've got time to play, and stretch it out someto check some trajectories.
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I have used noslers for years in all my elk rifles.The nosler has been around for many more years than most of us have hunted and I still think the 270 makes a suckey elk rifle.:D
BBJ |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Jack....SUCKEY...??...:D...:D...:D...
I haven't heard THATterm since my daughter was 14....hehehehe... You're correct about the noslers being around for a long time... They pre date ME and I'm one of the OLD FARTS on this forum...;)... |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I think if they used a .270 Barnes TSX, 150 grain, that oughta' do it, since people use 140 grain 7mm Rem Mag Barnes TSX on elk, but, for Jabba The Hutt, I would use the PPSH, he'll be tickled to death.....:D:D:D:D
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
The .375 H&H is the greatest cartridge for hunting large game in existence, no question about it. It has killed more elephants and cape buffalo then all dangerous game cartridges combined. And yes, in a pinch, it could handle Jabba The Hutt
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
We have lots of 30-06's. I mostly shoot the old Win Silvertip ammo in 150 or 180 in all of them for all big game. I've loaded a ton of these in 220gr also in case I ever get back to AK or encounter Bigfoot again in unit 71.
We also shoot a lot of cheap green box Rem CorLokt 150. They work well. I'm not into paying 39.99 a box for ammo with 'premium' bullets, unless its to get a higher BC/lower CDso it shoots flatter faster. For my new BLR 7RemMag elk rifle I'll prolly go with the Swift Sciroccos in Hornady ammo just to get the max flatness out of the gun-cal. But other than that I think the 'premium' bullet stuff is just so much marketing BS. Just to keep it goin I think the same (m...BS) of the twisty hunk of steel on the end of rifle barrels, of grooved anything on the outside of a rifle, of shooting sticks( yeah hell I carry my own rifle too), and 55mm scope lenses. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek replies, I was trying to be silly but still make a point. That point, in series:
1) The "big caliber" crew draws the line on elk at 7mm magnum. 2) Premium bullets have come on to the market claiming drastically better bullet performance. If that's true; then 3) Clearly the new "bottom line" for elk, according to the "big caliber" school, should drop below the 7mm magnum. Finally; 4) Anyone in the big caliber crew who disagrees with the conclusion of #3 has got a major logical inconsistency if they have switched to premium bullets. (i.e. What are you paying the extra money for?) For me, I'd happily take a .243 after elk if I had to, preferably with premium bullets. I would simply exercise the same self-control required in bowhunting, to limit my shot range and angles. If I put 100 grains of bullet into an elk's lungs, it's dead. And then some. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Dirt2
Not sure your logic is 100% correct. If the "big caliber" crew already uses premium bullets and draw the line at 7mag then #3 is not necessarily correct and anyone who disagrees with the conclusioin of #3 does not have a major inconsistancy. Now if #1 read the "big caliber" crew who uses the regular Corelokts draw the line on elk at 7mag, then your logical progression may in fact hold true. ;););). yes i'm being a smartbutt |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
["For me, I'd happily take a .243 after elk if I had to, preferably with premium bullets. I would simply exercise the same self-control required in bowhunting, to limit my shot range and angles. If I put 100 grains of bullet into an elk's lungs, it's dead. And then some."]
As I have mentioned many times here and on Realtree forums seen quite a few fotos ofCO teens women andyoung people with huge bull elk killed with a 243 rifle. In CO it is decidedly NOT uncommon. Admittedly it isnt my choice, but if its the only gun I had available to use I'd go get me a box of Hornday Light Magnums for it and hunt til I dropped. This idea of "sub-calibre" comes from magazines whose job it is to stir controversy and sell more magazines which dont necessarily help get the brown on the ground. Good luck to y'all with whatever rifle you choose to use. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
"....I would simply exercise the same self-control required in bowhunting, to limit my shot range and angles...." If being "limited" and "just getting by" and "walking away" from straight forward kill opportunities (at least straight forward with a competent elk rifle)are your style, then you're in business and represent the "teeny, weeny bikini" group well [trying to just get by without much]. Of course, the rub comes when the "teeny, weeny bikini" hunter takes a shot on an elk (in defiance of his own code of "ever vigilant and careful restraint") that should have been left to a competent elk rifle and now the tracking job is on. [80% of elk hunters in Colorado are unsuccessful, it is naive to think that success rate doesn't make for some "stretch the envelope" shots towards the end of the 1 week season.] "....Not sure your logic is 100% correct. If the "big caliber" crew already uses premium bullets and draw the line at 7mag then #3 is not necessarily correct and anyone who disagrees with the conclusioin of #3 does not have a major inconsistancy...." "....I have used noslers for years in all my elk rifles.The nosler has been around for many more years than most of us have hunted and I still think the 270 makes a suckey elk rifle.:D BBJ |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
What about us "Big Caliber Crew" who draw the line at 30 cal., even with premium bullets?
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
IMO the new premium bullets have made the 6.5x55, 260, 270 and 280 as well as probably the 25-06 legitimate cartridges for elk and other large deer family critters. Many who really know will argue that they already were but with the Triple Shock and other premium bullets, they are even more suitable. I use Premium Bullets when I think they offer a real advantage over standard offerings. For deer I use the Nosler Ballistic Tip and Sierra Pro-Hunters more than anything else. For Elk and Moose I use the Nosler Partition and sometimes the X bullet or Triple Shock.
These days only Grizzly and other big bears would deter me from using the 270 Winchester. For them, I will break out a 45-70.:DProbably with Corbon or Garret cartridges or their equivalent. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
All guns are good with good shot placement.
More power is always better though. I have a problem with some high end bullets though in my new 7mm ultra mag. It is just too fast. 160 grains at 3480fps, 150 3600+, 140 3700+(good coyote prarie dog round, will throw coyotes up into the air). My 160s for elk were some barnes Tsx and I ripped all four petals off the bullet within 2-3 inches of flesh on anything within 250 yards, accubonds shred like a varmint bullet within 250 yards. Partitions work good though. maybe you can have too much gun, but it sure seems cool. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Anyone whom doesn't see a difference in the quality bullets made of late an the original 1950s fodder doesn't understand the bonding process. Not knowing why the jacket seperated from the lead after it hit a rib on a deer size animal, content to think ,"it killed the deer/elk so it must be good". A theroy that runs quickly a muck when the shooter tries to use that same caliber/ammo combo on tougher game.
FTR there was a time the .270 was considered the top of the chain for elk and all the gun scribes such as O'connor,Barness,etc. wrote glowing reports on it. To me if Ineedto use bullets to make my 270 an '06 I'd rather just buy an '06 to begin with. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
OR, buy both like I did.;)
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: Dirt2 I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek replies, I was trying to be silly but still make a point. That point, in series: 1) The "big caliber" crew draws the line on elk at 7mm magnum. 2) Premium bullets have come on to the market claiming drastically better bullet performance. If that's true; then 3) Clearly the new "bottom line" for elk, according to the "big caliber" school, should drop below the 7mm magnum. Finally; 4) Anyone in the big caliber crew who disagrees with the conclusion of #3 has got a major logical inconsistency if they have switched to premium bullets. (i.e. What are you paying the extra money for?) For me, I'd happily take a .243 after elk if I had to, preferably with premium bullets. I would simply exercise the same self-control required in bowhunting, to limit my shot range and angles. If I put 100 grains of bullet into an elk's lungs, it's dead. And then some. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
The 160 grain 270 Nosler Partition will flat out take any elk on the planet. Great sectional density and penetrating ability. Of course on todays elk my 405 Winchester is probably way to light as well.;)
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: Dirt2 For me, I'd happily take a .243 after elk if I had to, preferably with premium bullets. I would simply exercise the same self-control required in bowhunting, to limit my shot range and angles. If I put 100 grains of bullet into an elk's lungs, it's dead. And then some. We had a thread about it a long time ago, maybe you should post a thread in the Big Game section, you'd get lots of interesting responses. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: Beartooth375 The .375 H&H is the greatest cartridge for hunting large game in existence, no question about it. It has killed more elephants and cape buffalo then all dangerous game cartridges combined. And yes, in a pinch, it could handle Jabba The Hutt |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
And the 7x57 Mauser.
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Why does everyone have it in their heads that you must have a cannon to put down an elk? Does it come from the magazine writers or just figure bigger has to be better? I have seen lots of elk killed with 243, 257, and 270 caliber rifles some even smaller. The 243 was my elk rifle for along time until my wife started useing it.
I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either. I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed. I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right? I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Well, since it is a blanket question and its all been covered before....
here you go.... http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1006124&mpage=1 REFERENCE: 270's & Elk, 270's & Elk.... Think I'm Gonna Puke! This Index....Since the "270 For Elk?" question is never ending and the answers end up being essentially all the same every time it comes around, I started this thread to "round up all the 270 cliches" [270Win that is] that I could in one place and give the "30-06 power and up for elk" folks an easier way to answer the never ending question "270 For Elk?". Feel free to cut and paste any of my posts into the most recent "270 For Elk?" thread so long as you feel what I wrote is appropriate as an answer or response. ================================================== ===== INDEX FOR THIS THREAD FOR: Folks Who Like To See A Bit More Power For Elk & Are Considering Responding To "270 For Elk?" Threads: Page 1 (Top) EKM - Why the "disconnect"? Is it even worth the bother trying to "reconnect" them? ****** Part 1: Few Have Experience With Wide Range Of Cartridges AND With Big, Big Game. Many Have Neither! ****** Part 2: Magnums Okay For Geese (Understand Just Fine), Magnums For Elk (They Don't Understand At All)! ****** Part 3: One Elk Camp's Solution After Years Of "270 Experience". (Means 30-06 plus and They're Not Alone.) ****** Part 4: Pretty Emotional Subject --- Takes A Lot Of Time To Write Up Anything Worthwhile, Most Of Your Audience Won't Want To Hear Much Of What You Say, Are You Sure You Even Want To "Discuss" It With Them? ****** Part 5: A Good Alternative To Answering That "270 For Elk?" Thread & You'll Feel Good Too.... Page 5 (Low) EKM - Magnum Shot Placement - Visualize It And Then Put It Right Thru Into The Boiler Room: Any Angle, Any Bone, Any Time! Page 6 (Mid) SpyroAndes - Its About Being Unhindered By Your Weapon! Page 7 (Mid) Rather Be Hunting - Dead Is Dead.... Oh, Really? Is That The Whole Story? Page 7 (Low) BareBackJack - Jack O'Connor's 270 Was His Ultimate SHEEP Rifle! Oops! Page 8 (Top) EKM - Making Sense Of Rifles: Varmit Rifles, Deer Rifles, Cross-over Rifles, Elk Rifles, Elk Hammers! Page 8 (Top) EKM - The Response To "Its Not What You've Got, It's How You Use It" line. Page 8 (Low) RatherBeHunting - Cows and Rags Don't Equal Big Bull Elk, A Bit Different Toughness Factor! Page 9 (Low) ELKINMTCWB - 270's, You shoot'em, They Run, Someone Else Tags'em, Is That What You Want? Page 11 (Low) EKM - Other "270 Details" That Just Kinda Don't Quite Add Up: ****** Part 1 - Why Do The “devout 270'ers” turn around and buy….. "Magnums?" ****** Part 2 - Ratchet Factor: Why, Why, Why Do "Magnum Fans" NOT Want To Go Back To The "Good Old Days," Even Though They Own 270's Left Over From The "Good Old Days"? ****** Part 3 - The Bias Factor: As Time Goes On, "Some Folks Just Can’t Handle Their "Magnums" Anymore!" Page 12 (Mid) Jeep4x4 - Case In Point (Experience): Using Elk Hunting Shows As The Source Of One's Information! Page 15 (Top) NVMIKE - 270's: Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire.... Page 17 (Bottom) Hunter_59 - More Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire.... Page 19 (Mid) EKM - Taylor Index and Elk Hunting: 30-06 Power and Up! ================================================== ===== |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: ross220 Why does everyone have it in their heads that you must have a cannon to put down an elk? Does it come from the magazine writers or just figure bigger has to be better? I have seen lots of elk killed with 243, 257, and 270 caliber rifles some even smaller. The 243 was my elk rifle for along time until my wife started useing it. I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either. I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed. I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right? I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk. Well let me ask you a question, why is it, that you .243 fanatics, intentionally find the tiniest big gamecartridge you can find, and hunt with that, as use the gun as a battle cry? "The elk went down but he didn't get much meat from him either." How can you not get much meat from an elk? One deer will last a long time, and take a long time to eat.And elk are like 6 times bigger. And what's all that insanity about losing one half of an elk by shooting it in the shoulder? Yeah,it'll happen, supposingyouhave a 40mm artillery piece. If you shootDEER in the shoulder, you don't even lose one 5th of the meat, 300 Win Mag works good on deer, and you really can't in any way say there's such a thing with standard calibers, as overkill on deer, my uncle has a friend who shot a whitetail in Nebraska using a .338 Win. Mag., and the shockwave broke it's back, but he lost little or no meat in comparision to what he would've lost if he were using a small caliber. You're just not making any sense. Elk, and Moose, have lots of meat, and the only way you can waste meat while in the process of killing the animal is if you're using a Browining .50-cal BMG machine gun, or the .30cal machine gun, and I seriously doubt anyone will be having to worry about a "Machine Gun hunting" fad anytime in this century. Honestly, shame on you for using a varmit rifle, and the bare minimum rifle for deer, on elk, that's just stupid, it's like this one kid who posted, and shot a Grizzly Bear with a Mini-14, that's right, a .223, are you telling me, that an adult such as yourself, was uncapable of accurately shooting a .30 cal, or at least a .270, for elk? I seriously doubt it. It's most ethical to shoot the biggest cartridge you can, ACCURATELY. Most people that are mature can shoot a 30-06, or at least a .308 accurately, and if recoil still bothers you, you can get a Sims Limbsaver Recoil Pad, and it works great, or, if you're shooting magnums, get a muzzlebreak, or both, and it'll work, and if your gun weighs at least 8 pounds, you're already reducing recoil. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: eldeguello I suspect you'd be surprised to know how much big/dangerous game whas been killed with the lowly .303 British! |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I'd have to say that I disagree with you. Using a premium bullet Jabba can easily be hunted with the 243. See I think you could get the penetration into the vitals and with jabba there is very little chance of him going very far after the shot. Heck there isnt much chance of him going very far before the shot.
;);) |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I've never claimed that the 270 is too light to kill an elk. I've stated quite often that "I" wouldn't carry one. Does premium bullets change the equation? well, sort of. I wouldn't even consider a 300 magnum with inferior bullets. When talking of big game I think that the use of premium controlled expansion bullets must be a constant. Highly frangible bullets such as ballistic tips have no place other than in the varmint field. Does a 270 loaded with 150 gr. TSX's make a better elk weapon than it would loaded with 130 gr coreloks? I think the answer is yes. Would I prefer it to my 338 win loaded with 225 gr. partitions? NO! Will a 243 kill an elk? you bet it will. Does the average joe who drives out to colorado to elk hunt and sees a five point 300 yards off quartering away have the proxy to pass the shot because he's carrying a 243? I highly doubt it. Take my scenario a step further: same 300 yard quartering away shot. Lets say that I take that shot and I forget to account for a cross wind and the shot drifts 4 inches to the rear into the "gut shot" region. 1.With a 243 what results can we expect? Will the bullet penetrate sufficient to take out the back of the offside lung? I doubt it 2. With a 270 and corelokts, same question? Maybe, but doubtfull. 3.with 270 and TSX's? Possible 4. with a 30-06? decent possiblity 5. With 338 win mag? I'd bet on it! So which makes you fell better? I doubt it, Maybe,possibly, or You bet? Thats not to say that I advocate taking questionable shots, quite the opposite is true. I just like the idea of the added margin for error, when the need arises. go ahead and flame away! |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher "what will get the job done PRUDENTLY". It's just not prudent to go chasing elephants with a 6.5mm or elk with a .243 for that matter. So either you can revel in being a true minimalist, & try to scare the life out of the biggest critter you can find using only the muzzle blast of the smallest projectileavailable. Or, you can go out & buy the biggest "What-Am-I-Compensating-For" Ultra Mag, hoping to leave flames leaping from the carcass after the slug passes through at Mach 5 on its way into a low-earth orbit. Heaven FORBID there should be a middle ground... especially if it were "prudent"! Sorry for the sarcasm. I've got to prep for another trip to the range with my '06...:D FC |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Sorry young gun, I but just can't see how I am not ethical because I have shot elk with a 243. If there is no way anyone should shoot an elk with anything less than a 30 cal. than how does one go about killing an elk with a little ol' bow and arrow? I can't figure that one. How many foot pounds does a60 lb bow make anyway.
I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of. I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well. As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it. Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics ) I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing. As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: ross220 Sorry young gun, I but just can't see how I am not ethical because I have shot elk with a 243. If there is no way anyone should shoot an elk with anything less than a 30 cal. than how does one go about killing an elk with a little ol' bow and arrow? I can't figure that one. How many foot pounds does a60 lb bow make anyway. I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of. I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well. As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it. Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics ) I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing. As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: ross220 I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well. I didn't say a person should shoot the biggest gun he can find, I said he should shoot the biggest rifle he can shoot well. |
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Most states allow the 243 as the minimum for all big game, if folks choose to use it, which I would not, then many will do so. If a caliber is not adequate its partly the fault of the state.
|
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Here in TN, it used to be that the .243 was the minimum, but now, it's any centerfire cartridge, it can be used on big game, which is deer and hogs, but once the elk populations become much more huntable, if they ever do in 20 years, they'll have to put back the ole' .243 limit again, I bet, 'cause they sure as heck don't want people chasing elk around with a .204 Ruger.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:42 AM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.