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First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I just came back from my first elk hunt and I had a great time! I chose one of the sponsors listed on this web site, Old Stone Fence Hunting Adventures as I had never been on an elk hunt before. Old Stone Fence is a hunting preserve in upstate NY. I took a beautiful 7 x 7, that I estimate scored at 400+.
The day was crystal clear and about 4 below zero when we started out. It had snowed 2 days before and there was about 4 inches of the white stuff on the ground. It was the powdery kind that makes it easy to move through the woods silently. We were making our way to the stand when we came across several elk moving through the woods. We scouted out 7 or 8 elk and I was ready to take an 8 x 8 when I spotted a huge bull bringing up the rear. He was quietly picking his way through the timbers when I put the crosshairs on him. I counted the points and saw that his rack was much longer. My guide told me he estimated the bull to score between 375 and 400. We waited until he came to a small clearing before I took the safety off and squeezed off a round. I had been told that elk were tough to take down and after putting a shot through both lungs and the elk never flinched, I believe it. At first I thought I had missed because the bull didn't react like he had just been hit. The guide told me it was a good hit but the bull just walked off. We trailed him for a few minutes and then I had another opportunity for a second shot. It was only after the second shot that his legs became rubbery and it was clear he was going down. If anyone is considering going on an elk hunt and you'd like to bring back something for the time and money invested, I heartily recommend this outfitter. It's not the Rockies but you'll be treated honestly and you'll have something to hang on the wall. Hope you enjoy the pictures! Take care and God bless! http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/kl_willia...t+2002&.src=ph |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
MarkW, congrats! What a way to start out your elk hunting career! Score dude. Just out of curiosity what caliber where you using on that bad boy?
By the way Mark, I see you have only been on the site twice. Just so you know there is a real anti-outfitter, self-rightous, "it's only good if you are out hunting on your own" attitude on the part of many of those who post here! Same folks will try to tell you your experience was not as "deep", or as "rich" as if you did it all by your lonesome! I am more from the "whatever it takes" school of elk hunting. Just ignore them! Good job! East of the Mississippi even, that's great! EKM Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do! Edited by - ELKampMaster on 12/09/2002 01:19:04 |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Congratulations on the elk.I have used outfitters in the past to learn about hunting a species and see nothing wrong with doing so.I personally would not hunt on a preserve but if you are happy that is what really counts.Out of curiosity what do they charge for an elk that size?
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Congrats Mark and welcome to the boards. I couldn't get the pictures to enlarge, but it looks like a dandy bull. Good to hear a positive review on one of the sponsored outfitters here.
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Congratulations!!
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Right on, Mark - sounds like you enjoyed yourself and got a great trophy! How long was your hunt? What was the area like?
As for the anti-outfitter sentiment, I think it's more about the attitude of the person - what goes around comes around...some people like fast food and some only eat what they grow - whatever you like...<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
markw - I couldn't get the pictures full size either ... are you sure its a 400+ bull though ??
Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Congrats on the bull. I've only seen positive posts on this thread so I'd work on your flinch ElKampMaster. To be honest I have never really seen an anti-outfitter thread at all. Just people being burned by em and ticked about it. Nothing wrong with outfitten, its not for me but my personality has always been do it on my own.
I couldn't enlarge the pics but he doesn't quite look 400+ but it is a great bull. Hope you have more stories ahead of ya. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
On the outfitter thing ...
http://www.huntingoutfitters.com/oldstonefence/ I'll jump ... just many acres of land was this hunt on ? Was it a preserve hunt in NY and a no kill - no pay ? How many different types of animals were available to hunt on how many acres ?? Sounds fishy to me and questionable. Hey, if its legal, I don't begrudge anyone killing an animal this way, however depending on the circumstances, I woulnd't call it a hunt. Care to clarify ? Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Huntin' on a preserve AND usin' a outfitt'n guide? Good thing sumpt'm was said early on 'cuz I'm bettin' them boys would'a fried thet poor feller in oil 'n served 'im up litely season'd wit' salt 'n pepper. Kin see the same herd grazn from one thread to de oth'r!
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I have seen a few 400+ bulls in AZ and NM but never got one with my bow. Do have a 360+ bull. I am surprised that the bull didn't jump with a double lung rifle shot though. Suggest you spend that money next year to come out west and go on a real elk hunt with a real outfitter and let us know how it compares. Good hunting.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
congrats on the nice bull!!!
"ATTITUDE REFLECTS LEADERSHIP, CAPTAIN!" |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
To be polite I sent the post I made to markw and this was the reply I got and the response I made. So for the record I haven't contacted the "outfitter" or anything, just speculation on my part.
"It appears to me that you've already formulated an opinion. So no, I wouldn't care to clarify. Why do I get the feeling you're a member of PETA?!" markw - PETA ? With 4800 posts to my name, I doubt it. Like I said, I don't have a problem with anyone killing a penned elk or animals in sanctuary/preserve type enviroments. Heck, I'm sure they eat better than wild ones do ! But calling it a hunt is wrong and THAT friend is kindling for the PETA fire. Still giving you the benefit of a doubt though, thats why I asked questions and didn't come all out and bash you for canned hunting - if thats what it was. Brad Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Here's a quote directly off their websight.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We offer fully guided and safe hunts incorporating fair chase rules.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> If you doubt their honosty on this, I would suggest to contact the outfitter, not persue the guy that wanted to share his success, he didn't come here for that. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Rather Be Huntin - flinch? Yeah I guess so, sorry. Of course, a flinch comes when you know there is a big kick coming followed by lot of noise! Similar to seeing an unsuspecting soul pick up a Magnum to shoot and not warning them they could get slapped around a little bit! I was #2 on the thread then and now #15. I could see he was likely to get a more than rough reception and warned him so. Did flinch, but given the pursuit and what's been said between then and now, I don't think I missed the mark by much.
gleninAZ, thought your points were right on beam, would be good to see him give "outfitted & out west" trip a chance next year. ArcticBowMan, thanks for jumping in! You're right, this guy didn' t sign up for what he's getting! Stealthy Cat, regarding "preserve hunting" (NOT outfitting) you bring up valid concerns regarding anti's, PETA, what does or doesn't qualify as "hunting" and its portrayal in our public forum here. Thinking that one over & may condition my openness to that approach a bit! Not to young, er I mean not too old to learn along the way. EKM Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do! Edited by - ELKampMaster on 12/10/2002 17:55:29 |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I tried to phone and no ansewer, so I sent an email.
ABM - you're right, however as you know I aint the only one who'll jump up when a "hunt" isn't a hunt. We all know canned hunting is a favorite target of anti-hunters and I personally think that hunters themselves can and should monitor those places and call them for what they are - a place to kill meat and nothing more. I'll apologize for my posts and will edit/delete them as needed if I recieve an email that proves me wrong in my assumptions. " No License required, no harvest - no charge, reservations a must!. Elk Starting at $1200 Super Reds Starting at $1500 Red Stag Starting at $800 European Wild Boar Starting at $350 Fallow Deer Starting at $500 Buffalo Starting at $2500 Ram Starting at $500 4 Bird Pheasant Hunts Starting at $65 We also offer a limited number of Wild Whitetail and Turkey hunts. Thats also what the site says. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Real pretty elk. Looks like you got a good bang for your buck.
You ought to try an outfit hunt out West though. It wont be as easy but the harder you work for something the better you feel about it. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
no word from the "outfitter" but markw did respond to my last email to him ..
" Amigos - Hunters regulating hunters ... hell of a concept huh ? Your "outfitter" didn't return my emails asking how many acres and how many of the animals were resident and how many were shipped in before the "hunt". I've fought this battle more than once on the net and to my friends and the end result is this - killing a half tame, grain fed animal that has only a few hundred acres to roam on and shares that land with 10 different other species including exotics behind a high fence - thats not hunting its paying to kill an animal, eat the meat and mount the head. Thats not to say all high fence areas are bad, but yours sure sounds like one. Notice you won't discuss the details ? That alone strongly indicates it too left a bad taste in your motuh because you won't defend it. Anyway, those are my thoughts and I'll post this on the message board too. I seriously doubt you'll find ANY hunting board that will agree with canned hunting. Brad -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sent From HuntingNet.Com by stealthycat Sorry, but I never expected to get the kind of reaction I received from a hunting website. I've never seen hunters attacking one of their own like that anywhere. I'm sure the anti's were loving every minute of it. and THAT, my friend wasn't just kindling for their fires, it was a whole forest. When we attack each other, we're doing their job for them. But, hey, don'tworry about me cause I'll never make the mistake of going back to that website ever again. Adios, Amigos markw - If you do respond to this thread, again I don't think its an issue of legal or not legal, its an issue of whats hunting and what isn't. I'm all for people doing things differently, but calling it something it isn't just irks me. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Wow Stealthycat, I feel sorry for this markw guy. Here he is proud as punch about taking an Elk and you squash his groove. I do agree with his reply that there should be some brotherhood here. Whether, you agree with his "hunt" method or not it is not ours to judge. It was a legal method he used to harvest his animal. If we get into arguing semantics here, we will tear ourselves apart. Deer, bear and cougars etc hunted with dogs, the entire exotics thing in the US. Crossbows, there are many practices that are not agreed upon. If we all stand by what we as individuals believe, we will not be a force of law abiding hunters. We will be tiny groups of people fighting amongst ourselves and not for the common good of the sport. We can agree to disagree but we must stand firm and together on the whole, to preserve our heritage.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
So poor Mark got flamed for hunting on a preserve. What else is
new. People get attacked for hunting with rifles, compound bows, crossbows, roadhunting, going on a guided hunt, shooting button bucks, anything and everything legal or not legal. Actions like that make us our own worst enemy. We need to unite not fight amongst ourselves. Mark did nothing wrong. What is a preserve for except to provide people that want to have a great chance of success at getting an animal that opportunity to do so. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Badatta2d - Awe, maybe you're right. Heck, who cares what hunting REALLY is as long as its legal, right ? Shooting a caged animal, shooting one that shares 400 acres with 10 other species of animals, half of them exotic and all corn fed, yeah, thats the example of hunting I want to pass to my kids and shown on ESPN2 and the Outdoor Life channels.
PETA loves canned hunts, the Media like to show them on TV as hunting. I accept a lot of different kinds of hunting, baiting, dogs, crossbows, spears you name it - but calling a canned killing a hunt is over the line for me. markw posted this on a public forum for all to see - how do ya'll know he isn't PETA ? I emailed him and the outfitter and none will tell me how many acres, how many species are resident etc. Did the bull have an ear tag too ? Is this REALLY hunting ? I think those are valid questions, and taking the guys satisfaction away from the kill might be justified in that light. Hey, I call it like I see it and back it up with the reasons why. stickerpt - I never said it was wrong, I said it wasn't hunting IF the place is what I think it is. You said yourself " You ought to try an outfit hunt out West though. It wont be as easy but the harder you work for something the better you feel about it" and thats exactly right. I just go farther and call it what it is, a canned hunt with a gauranteed kill and that folks aint huinting. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
PETA this or PETA that, I have the feeling you know much more about PETA than you are letting on. Either that, or your just a "hater" only here to listen to your own rambling. No wonder so many people have e-mailed me saying not to waste my time on you.
I'll tell ya this. I have only been here a short time and already can see his site is loaded with folks claiming to have done this or that. But the funny thing is the people claiming these things are posting the same pics that I, was e-mailed last year, by a friend or co-worker whatever. Maybe this isn't a site for Hunters, but a bragging and slander board. If thats true it's a shame. You claim to accept a lot of types of hunting, so what, we should all check with you prior to going, so we know where you stand and what will and will not be flamed by the board. Screw that! I am not one to hunt in high fences of any kind. But I don't be little those that do. You are not my conscience or the voice of this "Hunter"! Your opinions are just that, and thats all they'll ever be! |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Badatta2d - I cried after reading that and the core of my being has been wounded.
Look, I have an opinion and I gave it and I said why. I questioned, I asked, I called and I emailed. I am NOT one to take things for face value all the time when the pieces don't add up. http://www.peta-online.org/alert/aut...tem.asp?id=300 http://www.wildlifeprotection.net/Ca...huntindex.html http://www.fund.org/cannedhunts/ http://www.hsus.org/ace/12017 Theres some reading for ya'll And here's a picture too - hows this for fair chase HUNTING ??  http://www.fobarehunting.com/ElkBreeding.html This site says ... " Registered Rocky Mountain Elk Blood Lines From: *HeavyV * Roy * USA1 * *Harry * Tremor * Dakota Pride *Diamond Top Blood Lines Bred Cows, Calves, Herd Sires Free Delivery On: Breeding Packages in Northeast Also Quality Whitetail Breeding Stock Economical Ideas On: Fencing & Handling Facilities Dealer for Tightlock & Solidlock Fencing Also Facility and Fencing Construction And also Home of the: Old Stone Fence Hunting Adventures Coincidence ?? No, same name and same group. Wanna whitetail buck ? How about this one ... Jack Pot 3 year old herd sire 14 Point 30" Outside Spread Score: 180 & 6/8  There, you got a name, age, size and gross/net score and photos sent your home before you ever put down the cash to go. Aint that grand and this is the future of hunting ?? Hey, its my opinion, but ya'll want to go and kill these animals thats fine with me. Like I have said numerous times, ya'll gonna get a fine mount and some great meat, but I question that you're missing the true definition of hunting. Am I wrong ? Maybe I am, and if so this country has gone far worse than I thought. Go to those sites, PETA first then the others and you'll see much truth in what PETA claims. I for one will NOT stand and back a hunting brother that participate in these preserve type kills and calls them hunting. If this makes me anti-"hunting" so be it, call it what you want. If I wrong here, PLEASE enlighted me. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Stealthy, I don't necessarily disagree with your observations, and I am not here to argue with you (although it is quite fun). I just think there are better battles out there than hunter vs hunter. This was and remains my main point.We need to educate others and be respectful of the legalities sport. How many times have you, I and others, been denied access to private land because of what the "previous" hunter did wrong. I am all about fair chase. I would rather harvest a doe in the wild than have old "Jack Pot" on my wall. It just seems if you start slamming others from partaking in "canned" hunts, it opens the floodgates. What about hunting over bait or outfitters that brag about success rates. I would rather see them proclaim oppurtunity stats than actual kill rates (thankfully many are now starting to do this). Where does it stop?
If this Elk Hunt that Markw went on is a board sponsor, I can't believe you are a member of such a board. Like I said I don't necesarily disagree with your opinion as an individual, but when it is used as consensus statement on a public board, thats when the fur flies. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Baddata sure has a point. That preserve is a sponser of the board
and as such I am not going to knock it or someone that wants to go kill a trophy there. Havent we all said time and time again that the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Well that was Marks trophy and he has every right to be proud of it. Just because the majority of us dont agree with canned hunts, we should not slam a newbie for choosing to go on one for his first elk hunt. The poor guy might not come back because of the reception that he got and that would be a loss for him and for us. I enjoyed his story and pictures. |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Them "preserves" started all this CWD crap in elk. Ain't gonna support any canned hunts or hunters. Yall will agree when you see dead elk stacked up like cord wood an' yer freezers are empty fer years an' years.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Mark-Don't run off 'cause you get a little chewin' from some people. Both sides have a point. You need to keep hanging out here to learn what real elk hunting is all about. It's nothing like what you did and it is truly some exciting stuff. I think you should remain proud of the animal you took out of respect for the critter but please save those dollars for two years and mileage points and plan a western hunt. You will be doing yourself a huge favor and will see country worth dying for. Wild elk will drive you nuts and you will for sure start a tradition of the fall for you and your kids to follow. Good hunting.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I won't personally hunt on a preserve but I really don't care if others want to.My only problem with game farms is the outbreaks of cwd that seem to be originating in these places.They are a threat to our whole game population.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Truth #1:"ethics are in the eye of the beholder".
Truth #2: to a lot of "beholders" that whole situation ain't looking none too ethical. 2 cents #1: If you don't want to here it, don't start it. 2 cents #2: I aware that all forms of "elk captivating" are illegal in my home state. Wonder why? Guess I'll have to keep chasing. 'em the hard and cheap way. |
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Robert-that was cold! You guys assumed that shooting was involved. How do you know they just don't lay down for the photos. The prices look pretty cheap for actually taking the animal home in a cooler.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Nothing personal MARKW but I just took a look at that bull and I have to agree with gleninaz thats no 400 bull, I hope you did'nt get charged by the point. I'd say he's 350 at best, still a real nice bull. I've called in close to 500 elk, so I've also seen a few. I've been scoring elk now for 7 years and am usually a pretty good judge. Good huntn. elknut
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I have followed this thread since it has started and I think some of you guys have responded like such a$$holes and I'm not going to mention names, as most who have responded here are veterans at hunting, but for crying out loud, didn't we all begin at some point?? Don't you know the thrill of turning a child on catching perch or brim and seeing and experiencing the excitement that they experience, or have you lost the sight to see through their eyes. As someone said earlier, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Even though I have reservations about these types of hunts, who the HELL am I to condemn it. I think it was great to see it through Marks eyes and its a road to the great outdoors. It may not be your style or even mine, but I would not of confronted it like that, didn't you start off by catching small fish or even shoot a small deer and think that it was a trophy, and then have some a$$hole pop your bubble such as you and deney the individual of a good hunt in his mind. My method of hunting is different than yours and even though I may agree with your methods of hunting as I do, the same, who the hell do you think you are to cast judgement and belittle him on the excitement that a newbie is willing to share with his experience. I too am surprised at some of the responses and if I was Mark I would of been in your face, by the way my name is Bobby and I just had to respond.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Bobby-You are right and the last jab I took was a little nasty. Tried to keep it positive before that but it is such a joke I couldn't resist.I am an old guy and most of the time I support whatever it takes to get new hunters into the sport. Problem with this type of deal runs deep for those of us who have a hard time believing that it even exists whether a sponsor or not. I meant what I said to Mark and hope he does get out here for elk hunting. On the other hand it may keep other new hunters from getting sucked into paying for the same deal. I started by shooting squirrels but they weren't in a cage.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Bobby - That be me you're insinuating, why don't you just say it ??
Markw and I have sent several emails back and forth to one another. We agree on much, but on this we do not. I still am sticking to what I said - this is little more than killing a cow, not anything like elk hunting. I emailed the outfitter and hunting BBS concerning this, asking how many acres were on this place and no one is responding. Why ? markw gave me some info but I am not going to share those emails. This is the email I sent Hunting BBS ... <font color=red>" No topics and/or statements which could be used to reflect poorly on hunting, archery or firearms. Anti-hunting and other posts indicating a stance against the hunting, archery and firearm industry will be removed. </font id=red> Those are the rules on the Hunting.Net forums. Can you answer me this .. is Old Stone Fence hunting preserve a canned hunt or isn't it ? Yes, its legal under NY laws, but does it reflect poorly on hunting ? Can the anti-hunting crowds use places like this in their attacks against our rights to hunt ? <http://www.peta-online.org/alert/aut...asp?id=300> <http://www.wildlifeprotection.net/Ca...index.html> <http://www.fund.org/cannedhunts/> <http://www.hsus.org/ace/12017> Those are web sites where anti-hunting groups attack canned hunts. While some of their claims are not true, the overall opinion that hunting a penned, half tame aniamls isn't hunting. http://www.huntingoutfitters.com/oldstonefence/ <http://www.fobarehunting.com/ElkBreeding.html> This site says ... " Registered Rocky Mountain Elk Blood Lines From: *HeavyV * Roy * USA1 * *Harry * Tremor * Dakota Pride *Diamond Top Blood Lines Bred Cows, Calves, Herd Sires Free Delivery On: Breeding Packages in Northeast Also Quality Whitetail Breeding Stock Economical Ideas On: Fencing & Handling Facilities Dealer for Tightlock & Solidlock Fencing Also Facility and Fencing Construction And also Home of the: Old Stone Fence Hunting Adventures I submit that Old Fence Hunting Preserve is canned hunting. They raise penned animals for breeding stock and people who want to hunt these same animals can pay a hefty fee, drive in, shoot the animal (remember, no kill no pay) and go home with a "trophy". While legal, this is NOT hunting and its fuel for the anti-hunting groups. Killing a penned elk or deer on places like this preserve is no different than going out to Farmer Brown's field and shooting a cow. Good meat but theres no hunt there and no trophy. Can you please address this issue ? I have been a member of this board for 3 years, have posted over 5,000 posts but this distrubs me greatly and I think you are violating your own rules for $$$$$$$$ ?" Maybe reality is the very hunting site we visit is accepting sponsors who violate their own board rules ? Certainly canned hunting or small game farms are bad for hunting - most hunter will agree with that and all non-hunters will. Does money superceed ethics ? Not going to be a popular post this one, but I am claling it like I see it. This place is a farm where they raise elk, mule deer, red stags, white tails, and European boars, and they'll bring in anything you want to shoot - just give them a call. Folks when hunting becomes this then its no longer hunting to me. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
I think stealthycat is absolutely right about the danger that these "preserve" hunts pose when someone tries to pass them off as a legitimate form of hunting. I couldn't care less what PETA thinks as they are going to oppose us no matter what, but I do care a great deal about what non-hunters think about our sport. Is a high-fenced game preserve the image you want non-hunters to have of hunting? When non-hunting coworkers hear that you spent your vacation hunting elk do you want them picturing you shooting a pen-raised bull that was wearing a red ear tag bearing his pedigree identification number? If you say that you don't care what non-hunters think, I'll tell you that what they think should mean everything to you. Non-hunters outnumber hunters, and anti-hunters for that matter, by a very wide margin. Non-hunters will decide the future of hunting.
As stealthy has said these operations are little more than farms, and killing an animal there is comparable to shooting a farmer's beef cattle. That alone should be reason for any hunter to oppose their existence, and to shine the light of truth on any "trophy" that comes from one of these places. Add in the factor of CWD and I can't see how any legitimate case can be made for their continued existence. Some have made the argument that we as hunters should support any legal means of harvesting an animal. They are wrong. The future of the pastime we love depends on us being self policing, and generating a positive image to the non-hunting public. These "preserves" are playgrounds for people with no true hunting skill or ambition. People that are seeking the quick road to hanging a trophy on the wall. People that put their ego above their ethics. People that kill animals on these places are not true hunters, and it should outrage every one of us that are that these places exist and that they try to pass themselves and their "trophies" off as legitimate. BTW - I have nothing against outfitters or guides. Preserve hunting is in no way comparable to using a guide or outfitter. "If you can't change your circumstances then you need to change your perspective." Edited by - RuRu12 on 12/16/2002 12:04:14 |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Stealth, your like a Pit bull dog, you get you teeth in something and you don't let up and your research shows that you have done your share of homework and I sincerily respect that, it says something about your character and integrity and I am not doubting your verasity on the argument. I do not know what has transpired between you and Mark by E-mail as I can only base my statements on what has been posted here on the board. If you two have kissed and made up,thats just Great. When the issue came on the ballot here in Montana regarding canned hunts I voted against it. So I am not one you are trying to convince.
I do "NOT" think it was correct in circumcizeing this guy on the board, the hunt Mark went on was a LEGAL HUNT in the state of NY, your going after the wrong guy and suggest that if this type of hunting bothers you or any others on the Band Wagon that much, then make the changes at the State/Provincial level to get these types hunts removed. The key words here Stealth, is "Reflect Poorly". Who defines this? I know how angry one may get to abolish this type of hunting because a lot of us are well seasoned hunters and have chewed dirt, briars and deal with the harsh winters, get kicked and the long hours in assiociated with our sport,(just a few obsticles) only to have someone shoot game within fences and make it appear to others that it may seem that it is really that easy, but we know how hard that we sweated to get this animal. It just does't come that easy, later on, Bobby |
RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
"Hunting" is not shooting half-tame game.it is not even a hunt.
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RE: First Elk Hunt, 7 x 7, with pictures
Well Stealth, I have news for you. PETA is not anti-hunting...it is anti-meat eating. It appears that Mark wasn't interested in paying someone else to kill his meat for him. In other words all you great hunters that don't score and end up buying your meat at the supermarket ARE willing to pay someone else to kill it for you. Think about that for a moment. Of course if you are God's gift to hunting and NEVER fail to get a game animal then this doesn't apply to you. PETA will NOT be satified until all meat eating ceases. All who eat and enjoy meat had better wake up and support one another or we will end up being vegans like the PETA bunch. I don't always score on game and I am willing to pay for meat, however, if I had the money I would rather eat elk than beef. Apparently some of you folks would not.
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