Cartridge Choice
 

I want a Big bore that has LOW bullet drop. 30-06 has bad bullet drop past 200yards. I want a gun to do 400yards and capable of takin out big game, Elk, Moose, Caribou, and Bear/Mountain Goat. Any Suggestions

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

The 300WSM out performs just about everything. Other then that, you can opt for a 300 Win Mag or a 7mm Rem Mag, or a 270 WSM.

7mm WSM also, but doesn't appear to be very popular.

BTW, who told you that the 30-06 bullet drop is too much past 200 yards? I don't believe that personally. Hey, do some research on web sites such as Remington and Federal.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Just got the 338-378, check it out. Might be for you, might not.

Great power, 8-9 inches of drop at 400 yards, shooting a 250 gr bullet.

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It's been awhile since I've researched ballistics but I know that a .338 Win Mag will drop way more then a .300WSM.

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.416 Wby. Mag. Good luck.

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Although not a "big bore", look at the 30-378 Wby. 3,400 fps with a 180 gr Accubond isn't cheap though, $5/shot with factory loads. Assuming the manufacturer information is correct, that puts the Wby about 450 fps and 1,100+ ft/lbs ahead of the WSM with the same bullet.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Yep, I forgot about the Weatherby Mags, they're unbelievable in performance.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

First off, what do you mean by big bore? Big bore means something completely different than the calibers you described. When guys use the term big bore they are usually talking about .375 and above.

What makes you think the 30/06 is a slouch? Really, hundreds of the animals you stated have been taken by the '06 at ranges further than most guys would want to shoot. But, aside from the 30/06 any of the .300 mags are great choicesand they give a great mix of energy and velocity. Makingthem an elk hunters dream.Imagine a flat shooting 180 gr bullet hitting with almost a ton of energy at 400 yards. That's why they are so popular amongst big game hunters.

Any 30 caliber that shoots a 180 gr bullet at 3000 fps is going to hit hard!

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ID Hunter is not referring to the 338 Win. He is referring to the 338-378 WBY Mag. It is the bigger caliber brother to the 30-378. And it is a slammer as well!

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Yep, I forgot about the Weatherby's

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forget the weatherby mags, they are expensive to shoot, reloading aint much better, they burn barrels like crazy, and generally, don't offer anything over other magnums, in fact, weatherby, IMHO, tries too hard to outdo everyone, when, in all honesty, they just put out overpriced rifles and cartridges. Get a .300 or .338 Win Mag, they don't cost a ton to shoot, and their barrels will last forever.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

He considers the 30-06's drop at 200 bad...and wants something to shoot out to 400. Given those requirements what's NOT going to burn barrels? I agree with your 300 WM suggestion, but to rule out the weatherbys....this is precisely the kind of stuff they are made for!!!!!!!!!! I'd throw the 7RUM in there too.
Will they burn barrels? Yep
Will the cost alot to shoot? Yep
Will some of them kick like a rabid mule on PCP? Yep
Do they fit the requirements of original post? Yep

Here's the thing, at 400yards the WIN mag is only 5" flatter than the good ole 30-06. The standard by which he is saying is "real bad" and they are both already sitting around 20" of compensation at that range so we're only talking about 1/4 improvement!!!!! The 7RUM is closer to 8" as well as the 300 RUM and 300 Weatherby. This is with a 230 yard zero which is just about optimal for 6" target and all the 30 cal throwing 180 grain bullets. That 30-378 is another 200 fps ahead of the game so it may be just the expensive-to-shoot barrel-burning gun he wants.

To answer the original quesion: Take your pick of the suggested cartridges and realize you cant have your cake and eat it too. My personal suggestion would be to take the your money, buy a laser rangefinder a ton of ammo for that 30-06 and put a lot of time in the at the range...but that's just me.

Peace out, it's entirely toooooooo late.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

It's never too late, by big bore I'm thinking he wants to take anything in NA including big bear, plain and simple. Which makes the case for .30 caliber or 180 grain and above, which I consider the "bear" minimum. A .300 Win Mag or a .300WSM will satisfy that want, no bigger, no less. If you get the .300 Win Mag you can alwaysopt to buy the Weatherby cartrige to out perform the.300WSM but you will pay a hefty price. Otherwise, the .300WSM slightly out performs its predecessor and costs generally about $2 more for a box of 20.

My nextrifle for my collection will be a .300 WSM, probably in a Weatherby Vanguard Stainless Synthetic topped off with a Nikon Monarch.

Peace out yo's.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

I have had 2 300 WSM and they realy don't offer much more over the .300 Win Mag(performance wise).If you opt for a 30 cal then look at the .300 RUM,30-378 WBY or the 7.82 Warbird.
If you wan't a true Big Bore (.375 and up) the .375 RUM,.375 Ruger or the .378 WBY.
If you are looking for mid bores the .338 Win mag..338 RUM,.340 WBY or the .338-378 WBY.
Anything else in will probaly be custom built and made,like the .338 Kahn or the .300 Allen Magnum.
BBJ

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

The 338-378 is an excellent choice. I just happen to have one, so I'm kinda partial, but I bought it for the same reason you are talking about, 400yd + shots without 30" of drop and tons of energy when it gets there. Very versatile as well, especially if you reload, you can shoot 165 grains for deer up to 250 grains for dangerous game. I don't think it kicks any harder than my 300 WSM. They are quite heavy though, due to the 28" barrel. Fun shooting though.

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If you're a Sado-masichist maybe. Those things produce unbelievable amounts of recoil. At least the one I shot did.

My suggestion would be a 300 RUM. Its a kicker as well but not on par with the 338-378 weatherby.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

I am not sure he is really looking for a "big bore" by his description of usage. I think he is lookingat taking upto moose sized game but just flatter then the 3006. My suggestion would be a 300RUM or 7mm STW, if you reload. If not then a 300 wm/wsm or 7mm rem mag.

Good luck

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

.300 win mag will fill the bill for you very nicely.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

OR...... He could just sight in his30-06 properly and use a maximum point blank range of +- 4 inches.

A180 grain Hornady interbond starting out at 2700 fps will be just over 3" high at 100 yards, 3.7" high at 150 yards, 2.7" high at 200 yards, 0 at 250 yards, 4.5" low at 300 yards, and finally 19" low at 400 yards and still have 1600 foot pounds of energy.



I am not trying to sound like an arse whenI say this but in reading the original question it doesn't sound like ShoNUFF has a heck of a lot of experience with long range shooting and center fire cartridges in general (big bore comment) and is simply looking at factory ballistics tables concerning the 30-06.

I say learn how to shoot the 30-06 first before stepping up to a true long range cartridge.

Maybe I am wrong.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Who ever told you that is an idiot. 7MM shoots the farthest, followed by the 30-06.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

375 RUM

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8MM Remington magnum with 220 grain Seirra Boattails..sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I know there is no real difference between the 300 Win Mag and 300 WSM, I'm just saying if you look at the balistics on paper, the 300WSM out performs the 300 Win Mag by about 80 to 100 fps and another 100 foot pounds of energy. I might end up getting one of those new Hawkeye rifles in 300 Win Mag though, not sure. I like how evenly weighted the Rugers feel compared to the Weatherby Vanguards. If I happen to run accross a few extra bucks, then I'll look at the A-Bolt.

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Too big for me, the largest caliber I'm set on is either 300 Mag or 325 Mag

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That's probably the best choice if the bear is no more then a blacky but then again, it sounds like he'll be out and about in Big Bear country.

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Idiot is a harsh word. The 300 Win Mag out shoots the 7mm Rem Mag

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I'd really like to know how a 300 WSM outperforms the 300 Winmag? The only advatages are a shorter action which makes a lighter gun and uses less powder. Now from my personal experience loading for both cartridges, up to 180 gr bullets ballistically they are IDENTICAL, above that the belted magnum will put the WSM to shame. I'd have to agree with BB on this one learn how to shoot what you have before moving up to the big bangers with much more recoil. The 06 will take game at ranges farther than we have any business shooting.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

There is no comparison, the .300 Win Mag owns the WSM, especially if you are a handloader, the WSM's are just a bunch of hype, the handloader has a hard time duplicating factory performance, from the .300 WSM, go with the .300 Win Mag,.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

I have had no trouble exceeding factory performance with the WSM. Granted, the 300 Win with the right handloadscan sometimesget a small step ahead of the WSM, but with a heck of a lot more powder. For instance for me to get 3050 FPS from the WSM with a 180 gr bullet I use 65.5 gr of H4350.To get the same performance from a 300 Win I have to load 71.5 gr of the same powder. That's almost 10% powder savings per case, which in turn gives me 11 rounds of WSM for every10 completed Win mag loads, which turns into 110 rounds of WSM for every 100 rounds of 300 Win.

When you say the 300 Win. owns the WSM you are wrong. The WSMwill doalmost everything the Win mag does with less powder, a short action, lighter weight, lower recoiling rifle. The limiting factor for the WSM is the ability to load heavier weight 30 cal bullets (200 gr and above) because the longer bullets need to be seated further into the case causing a decrease in powder capacity.


I really have nothing against the Win mags. They are a revolutionary cartridge, and will never obsolete, but to discredit the WSM by calling it "hype" is truly mis-stating it's true capabilities.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Well, you are from Alaska, and hunt "real" big game, so, I should just stop argueing. I can get a 6 lb .300 Win Mag, so, weight isn't an advantage, the .300 WSM, per bullet weight, has a maximum of 2 ft lbs less recoil, that isn't that big of a deal, burns less powder? I don't think that matters to the average hunter, what the WSM does, is offer less reliable feeding, less availible ammo, and, it might not be around in 10 years. I guess you buy into hype pretty easily, eh? Oh, and, for all purposes, the .300 WSM, will not make the .300 Win Mag obsolete, contrary to popular opinion.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Try another approach, what about optics that compensate? Personally I would stick with the 30/06, 180 grain Barnes TSXand buy the Leupold VX-III with the Boone & Crocket Big Game Reticle.

Or if burning powder is your gig then get yourself this big bore: the .416 Meteror!! http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_lacart.htm

Actually, I just read the ballistics and it drops too much at 400 yards.. Never mind..

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Yes, you can get a 6 lb 300 win mag, but at what cost? Are you willing to pay the cost to get a custom or high priced lightweight 300 Win? Or will you buy the 300 WSM factory gun sitting next to it that weighs6 1/2 lbs for 1/4 the cost.

Plus you willsacrifice performance of the lightened 300 Win becauseyou will most likely be changing the barrel length or diameter to lighten the rifle, which either means you won't be fully burning your 71 gr powder charge, or you will be overheating your ultra thin profile barrel. Either way you are sacrificing accuracy or velocityfor weight.

There are many more variables to recoil than just bullet weight.Let's compare gun weight. The recoil of a 6lb 300 Win vs. a 6 lb 300 WSM both loaded with factory 180's.The 300 Winwill recoil a lot harder.You have to remember bullet weight is not the only factor in measuring recoil.Powder charge is another factor, but we already proved the WSM had the Win beat on this one for less recoil.

And there are other factors notfigured into the equation that change the felt recoil of a rifle. The stock designcan change the felt recoil of a rifle. Say for instance, If you alter the stock to make a 6lb 300 Win, you will most likely be increasing the felt recoil of the rifle.


This really depends on the rifle. I have seen plenty of binding bolts on rifles, and it didn't matter what caliber it was chambered for. You are making a general comment and attaching it to the 300 WSM with no credibility.

By whose standards? Yours?Every ammo store I go to has 300 WSM. Plus there are more and more manufacturers loading for the 300 WSM all the time. What started out as just Win. loading for itwhen it first came out, we now have loads fromWin, Rem, Federal,and other smaller manufacturers. Yup,the bigammunition manufacturersare chambering and loading for the 300 WSM.There are definately more signs pointing toit being around for a while than obsoleting in ten years.

I have no problem with ammo supply, I reload my own. When this argument started we weretalking about handloads anyway. For every rifle I own there is always plenty of ammo available.


You must be confusing the 300 SAUM with the WSM. This is another general comment based on what? Do you have some sort of proof to back this little theory of yours?I have a lot more evidence to prove you wrong on this one.

Sure I do! becauseit means getting ashorter action, lighter weight,lower recoiling rifle for practically the same performance without spending thousands for a custom gun. Who wouldn't want that?

Face it man the 300 WSM fills a niche that the 300 Win can't.


You are correct in this statement. The 300 Win will stay around for a longtime because it is a very useful cartridge.


This is the most correct statement you have made yet. :D

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Accoriding to Federal Ammuntion the 200 grain Bullet for the 300 WM will drop 26.6 inches at 400 yds. The .338WM shooting a 210 grain bullet wikll drop 23.3 inches at 400 yds.

Foot pounds of energy:

.338 - 1828
.300 - 1551


Pretty close...but I still choose my .338 over all of them.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

Justice, I have a Savage .300 Win Mag, 24" barrel, which comes in at a whopping 6.5 lbs, scope and all, so, you are incorrect in that sense, I haven't had any problems getting 1/2" groups off the bench, the .300 WSM does not fill a niche the .300 Win Mag doesn't, I don't remember people griping about bolt length before the WSM's, now that they have come out, thats an excuse everyone is using, all rebated rim cartridges are less reliable at feeding compared to belted cartridges, didn't you know that? I have proof to support my claim that th3 .300 WSM isn't doing so hot, it isn't in the top 20 list of sales, more popular, "proven" cartridges are ahead of it, as they rightfully should be, face it you bought the .300 WSM because you wanted to try something new, and now, you are just trying to validate owning it. And yes, I hate all Winchester Sucky Mags.:D

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

I don't know where you've gotten that info. Most the research that I've done in the past shows a 300 Win Mag will out perform a 338

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

The 300 WSM is only slightly more efficient by about 100 fps and foot pounds of energy, no real difference in trajectory. Dead is dead out to 500 yards and both fit the bill nicely for large bear but the WSM offers a slight advantage in that department. But no, for Moose and less the Win Mag is all you need.

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Outperform, maybe in trajectory, but, the .338 will have more energy when it gets there.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

I am calling a big BS on this! There is no way Savage builds a 300 Win. rifle that weighs 6.5 lbs with scope. For this to be true a bare rifle with an averageweight scope of 12-13 oz with mounts at 2-3oz your rifle would have to weigh right around 5.5 lbs which isthe same as Browning A-bolt Ti WSM. Savage doesn't build it. Confirmed --BS


I don't doubt it, Savages are great shooters. I won't even try to disprove this.

No, not really. I just happened to find a more compact rifle capable of magnum ballistics, in a lightweight package without spending thousands on a custom rifle. I don't have to validate my rifle to anyone. My rifle only has to validate itself to me. And it does every time I take it out of the safe.

Who cares? The 300 WSMdoesnot need popularity to perform.

And this statement allows me to gauge the maturity level of whom I am dealing with. Thanks for continuing to give me ammo to shoot you down.Despite what you think, most of the readers here are quite respectful and will be able to muddle through the BS. I applaud you for your persistance in trying to prove a point, but don't try to BS me or the readers of this forum again.
The 300 WSM is here to stay whether you like it or not.

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Correction, the gun weigh 7.5 lbs with scope, I'm not convinced about the lighter rifle concept, I'm just about ready to say, whatever you like, go with it, if you like that WSM, fine, but, I'm gonna shoot my .300 Win Mag all i want, and I never want to hear anyone say, that the .300 WSM outperforms the .300 Win Mag, because, that is just boloney. Oh sure, the WSm's perform, but, none of them, except the .270 WSM, can outperform their predecessor.

RE: Cartridge Choice
 

You were born in '78, I see, that explains it, you are from this new school generation of shooters who think they are superior in some way, you arn't even 30 years old yet, so just keep on talking, youngster. I've been hunting and shooting, longer then you've been around.