the 338 federal is looking promising
11-07-2006, 08:40 AM
#22
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
Not you james!
I like your opinions and comments. I was rattling Brutal's cage!
I like the 308 as well. But, if brutal likes it so well, my opinion of it is diminishing as we speak.[8D]
I like your opinions and comments. I was rattling Brutal's cage!
I like the 308 as well. But, if brutal likes it so well, my opinion of it is diminishing as we speak.[8D]
11-07-2006, 09:04 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
When compared to the .338 Win Mag the .338 Federal dosen't offer much.But we are not comparing apples to apples.
With same case the .338 Fed offers a decent jump over the .308 as in term of Muzzle velocity and Ft/lbs.
I'm not going to argue the low grain bullets thats point less,I feel the .338 cal should be shot with 210 gr bullets on up.Since federal is chambering a 210 gr bullet I will use that.In my hunting relm I wouldn't take shots over 300 yds with either rounds.
So at 300 yds using a Nolser bullets 180 gr for the 308 (the heaviest offering) and the 210 gr for the .338 Fed.
.308 Win
Ft/lb 1745
FPS 2089
Drop -9.0 @ 200 yds sight in, B.C is .474
now the
.338 Fed
Ft/lb 1879
FPS 2007
Drop 9.4 @ 200 yds sight in, B.Cis .400
Now all the .338 Fed offers is a little more FT/LB's over the .308 win.
If we use the 180 gr loads for both .308 win Nosler Part. 180 gr and the .338 Fed 180 gr Nosler Acc-bond(only 180 gr offering) shooting 300 yds.
.308 win
Ft/Lbs 1745
FPS 2089
Drop 9.0-
Now the .338 fed
Ft/Lbs 1821
Fps 2134
Drop 8.2-
This is all pretty much moot point if you look at papper.The only real advantage I see with the .338 Fed is the 210 gr bullet.If I and I stress I were to use this caliber it would be in the 210 gr Bullet.This combined with the Browning BLR's compact desing or the Rem Mdl 7 would make a fine in close hunting weapon with shots up to 300 yds.If you are looking for more range the I would go with the .338 win Mag or just as deer rifle the .308.I do see a real nich for this round.Just the compactness of a short action/barrled gun that could serve as a woods rifle or a bear stopper.
Those are my thoghts on this little round,just might be one in the closet come next season.
BBJ
With same case the .338 Fed offers a decent jump over the .308 as in term of Muzzle velocity and Ft/lbs.
I'm not going to argue the low grain bullets thats point less,I feel the .338 cal should be shot with 210 gr bullets on up.Since federal is chambering a 210 gr bullet I will use that.In my hunting relm I wouldn't take shots over 300 yds with either rounds.
So at 300 yds using a Nolser bullets 180 gr for the 308 (the heaviest offering) and the 210 gr for the .338 Fed.
.308 Win
Ft/lb 1745
FPS 2089
Drop -9.0 @ 200 yds sight in, B.C is .474
now the
.338 Fed
Ft/lb 1879
FPS 2007
Drop 9.4 @ 200 yds sight in, B.Cis .400
Now all the .338 Fed offers is a little more FT/LB's over the .308 win.
If we use the 180 gr loads for both .308 win Nosler Part. 180 gr and the .338 Fed 180 gr Nosler Acc-bond(only 180 gr offering) shooting 300 yds.
.308 win
Ft/Lbs 1745
FPS 2089
Drop 9.0-
Now the .338 fed
Ft/Lbs 1821
Fps 2134
Drop 8.2-
This is all pretty much moot point if you look at papper.The only real advantage I see with the .338 Fed is the 210 gr bullet.If I and I stress I were to use this caliber it would be in the 210 gr Bullet.This combined with the Browning BLR's compact desing or the Rem Mdl 7 would make a fine in close hunting weapon with shots up to 300 yds.If you are looking for more range the I would go with the .338 win Mag or just as deer rifle the .308.I do see a real nich for this round.Just the compactness of a short action/barrled gun that could serve as a woods rifle or a bear stopper.
Those are my thoghts on this little round,just might be one in the closet come next season.
BBJ
11-07-2006, 09:44 AM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,040
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Please explain how you can get a .338 bullet weighing just 10 grains more than the .308 bullet to produce almost 700 ft/lbs more out of the same case. That is totally rediculous.
Please explain how you can get a .338 bullet weighing just 10 grains more than the .308 bullet to produce almost 700 ft/lbs more out of the same case. That is totally rediculous.
11-07-2006, 10:29 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis
Can someone please explain to me, why any of us pay any attention to BrutalAttack? The guy is a trouble causer. Oh I'm sorry I forgot he Knows everything.
I like what I see of the 338 federal. I may purchase one just the chaff Brutals A$$! The 308 is boring! Brutal owns one though so its the best!
I'm sure he'll come back with something witty like: You didn't make a point. Or Federal's catalog says blah blah. Or I'm a scientist so my words mean more. Blah, blah, blah!
Just kidding! I thought I'd rattle your cage, we haven't butted heads in a week or so.
Can someone please explain to me, why any of us pay any attention to BrutalAttack? The guy is a trouble causer. Oh I'm sorry I forgot he Knows everything.I like what I see of the 338 federal. I may purchase one just the chaff Brutals A$$! The 308 is boring! Brutal owns one though so its the best!
I'm sure he'll come back with something witty like: You didn't make a point. Or Federal's catalog says blah blah. Or I'm a scientist so my words mean more. Blah, blah, blah!
Just kidding! I thought I'd rattle your cage, we haven't butted heads in a week or so.
I'm not trying to cause trouble. It just bothers me when people present obviously incorrect or downright false information as truth.
Don't drink the Kool Aid....
11-07-2006, 10:33 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: James B
My numbers are from the shooting times Magazine. These numbers are furnished by Fedaeal for the artical Thay also supplied the rifle and the ammo for the hunt and the eveluation. Now I don't own a 338 Federal yet. I do however own a 308 and have the ballistics on my desk here in front of me. I can confirm these from three different Reloading manuals. Using Federals Ballistics from their own tests, the 338 Fed will fire a 210 grain bullet at 2630 fps for a ME of 3224 Lb According to Barnes and Sierra and MY CHRONOGRAPH BOOK, the 308 will fire a 200 hrain bullet at 2400-2450 fps for a ME reading of 2690 lb.
I really don't have a horse in this race but these ballistics are sound and I have them from several sources. It does not matter which 338 caliber or which 308 caliber that you fire these bullets from. Use a 338-06 and a 30-06 or a 300 Wim Mag and a 338 Win Mag, When these bullets are fired at these listed velocities, thats the results you get. I have chronographed about every bullet that you can stuff in a 308 and have fired probably 20000 rounds through them in ten years of steel silhoutte shooting. I know the ballistics of the 308. I have no reason to doubt Federal ballistic as my manuals with data for the 338-06 and a few other 338 wildcats show the same results. I seldom use factory ammo but I have always had at least one chronograph since I started reloading so I am sure of my readings.
That proves my point to me and you will go on believing whatever choose. The same thing happens when you neck the 30-06 to 338. The 30-06 fires the 200 grain bullet at 2680 fps, the 338-06 fires the 200 grain bullet at 2828 fps. Same case same shoulder angle, However when necked to 338, the average amount of powder used is about 4-5 grains more for the 338-06.
My numbers are from the shooting times Magazine. These numbers are furnished by Fedaeal for the artical Thay also supplied the rifle and the ammo for the hunt and the eveluation. Now I don't own a 338 Federal yet. I do however own a 308 and have the ballistics on my desk here in front of me. I can confirm these from three different Reloading manuals. Using Federals Ballistics from their own tests, the 338 Fed will fire a 210 grain bullet at 2630 fps for a ME of 3224 Lb According to Barnes and Sierra and MY CHRONOGRAPH BOOK, the 308 will fire a 200 hrain bullet at 2400-2450 fps for a ME reading of 2690 lb.
I really don't have a horse in this race but these ballistics are sound and I have them from several sources. It does not matter which 338 caliber or which 308 caliber that you fire these bullets from. Use a 338-06 and a 30-06 or a 300 Wim Mag and a 338 Win Mag, When these bullets are fired at these listed velocities, thats the results you get. I have chronographed about every bullet that you can stuff in a 308 and have fired probably 20000 rounds through them in ten years of steel silhoutte shooting. I know the ballistics of the 308. I have no reason to doubt Federal ballistic as my manuals with data for the 338-06 and a few other 338 wildcats show the same results. I seldom use factory ammo but I have always had at least one chronograph since I started reloading so I am sure of my readings.
That proves my point to me and you will go on believing whatever choose. The same thing happens when you neck the 30-06 to 338. The 30-06 fires the 200 grain bullet at 2680 fps, the 338-06 fires the 200 grain bullet at 2828 fps. Same case same shoulder angle, However when necked to 338, the average amount of powder used is about 4-5 grains more for the 338-06.
11-07-2006, 10:45 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter
It's pretty easy to explain, actually. Just ask Einstein. You're throwing a little more weight at more velocity. E=mc2... E is energy, m is mass, c is velocity. The velocity figure is squared so it makes a huge difference.
It's pretty easy to explain, actually. Just ask Einstein. You're throwing a little more weight at more velocity. E=mc2... E is energy, m is mass, c is velocity. The velocity figure is squared so it makes a huge difference.
NO I don't think we use the theory of relativity to explain kinetic energy! lol...
That is one of the funnier things i've heard on here.
c^2 is the constant for the speed of light in a vaccum...
The equation for kinetic energy is KE=1/2mv^2
In which you're right velocity is squared, but mass is also divided by 2.
If you could produce 600-700 more ft/lbs of energy just buy switching to a 10 gr. heavier bullet out of the same case we sure wouldn't be shooting 180 gr. bullets in a .308.
But believe what you want I guess it's not my responsibility to try to teach you basic physics in one thread.
But nonetheless I feel I must try.
When you have a case, say a .308 case that launches a 180 gr. .308 bullet x fps, and then youlaunch a .338 210 gr. bullet out of the same case you cannot end up with that much more energy! Gravity acts upon the larger bullet faster, slowing it down quicker, it's larger caliber so it produces more drag when moving through the air etc....
If anything it's capable of producing a smaller amount of energy initally due to it's slightly higher mass and then dropping off faster since it's pushing a heavier bullet with the same case than the .308. That is why the ballistic coefficients for the .338 Federal bullets are so much lower than the .308.
11-07-2006, 10:59 AM
#28
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Anything that says you're getting 600-700 more ft/lbs of energy from a 10 grain heavier bullet fired out of the same case is obviously false. That really isn't hard to grasp...at all. Please don't take that as truth because it cannot be possible.
Anything that says you're getting 600-700 more ft/lbs of energy from a 10 grain heavier bullet fired out of the same case is obviously false. That really isn't hard to grasp...at all. Please don't take that as truth because it cannot be possible.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/30-06.php
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php
As you can see the 30-06 pushes a 180 gr. bullet at 2600-2700 fps while the 338-06 can push a 200 gr. bullet at 2700-2800 fps. plug that in to a calculator and you get approx. 2700 ft. lbs of ME for the 180 gr. 30-06 and 3200 ft. lbs of ME for the 200 gr. 338-06 bullet. Now granted thats only 500 ft. lbs of energy not the 6-700 discussed. This is a different case but it clearly shows that it is definately possible to do what you claim "cannot be possible."
11-07-2006, 11:03 AM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,040
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
Sorry. It's been 30 years since I've taken a physics class, but the point remains. You're still pushing more weight, and the velocity figure is still squared in your formula. I'm not sure where the 700 ft lb difference comes from, but using Federal loads, the difference looks to be closer to 500 ft lbs at the muzzle. Using either 210's or 180's in the .338, the ME is a little over 3200 ft. lbs. Using 180's in the .308, the ME is a little under 2750 ft. lbs. With Federal loads, the muzzle velocity is 200 fps higher for the .338 over the .308 using 180 grain bullets in each.
11-07-2006, 11:09 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: the 338 federal is looking promising
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis
Actually it is possible. As James said earlier, this isn't anything new to the wildcat community. An easy comparison is the 30-06 and the 338-06. Check these listings at Hodgdon powder:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/30-06.php
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php
As you can see the 30-06 pushes a 180 gr. bullet at 2600-2700 fps while the 338-06 can push a 200 gr. bullet at 2700-2800 fps. plug that in to a calculator and you get approx. 2700 ft. lbs of ME for the 180 gr. 30-06 and 3200 ft. lbs of ME for the 200 gr. 338-06 bullet. Now granted thats only 500 ft. lbs of energy not the 6-700 discussed. This is a different case but it clearly shows that it is definately possible to do what you claim "cannot be possible."
Actually it is possible. As James said earlier, this isn't anything new to the wildcat community. An easy comparison is the 30-06 and the 338-06. Check these listings at Hodgdon powder:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/30-06.php
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php
As you can see the 30-06 pushes a 180 gr. bullet at 2600-2700 fps while the 338-06 can push a 200 gr. bullet at 2700-2800 fps. plug that in to a calculator and you get approx. 2700 ft. lbs of ME for the 180 gr. 30-06 and 3200 ft. lbs of ME for the 200 gr. 338-06 bullet. Now granted thats only 500 ft. lbs of energy not the 6-700 discussed. This is a different case but it clearly shows that it is definately possible to do what you claim "cannot be possible."
Something you're doing isn't adding up.
I just compared 180 gr. 30-06 and 250 gr. .338-06 and the difference was only 283 ft/lbs.
I'm still not buying it.