Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Hey folks I need some help/advice. I love the mountains. I've been lucky enough to go on three elk hunts in my life. Each time was with a guide. Once in montana, and twice in British Columbia. I had great time at each and have nothing but good things to say about my experiences. Here's the deal though. I can't afford to go as often as I want. So I'm comtemplating DIY hunts.

I have no worries at all about my wood skills. I was raised on a farm and in the woods. I know I got the chops so to speak. I'm excellent with horses so I think I can pull it off. So I guess what I'm getting at is what equipment do I need to pack in to the back country that I love. Don't leave anything out. I know quite a bit but there might be some stuff I'm overlooking. So let me have your ideas.

Next I guess I would like to ask where? I love montana and wyoming but I think you have to use a guide to hunt the wilderness areas. There must be a state that I can go to do what I'm considering. any help would be greatly appreciated.

OBTW I love to elk hunt but its not a must. Just being in the mountains is what I'm after. Elk,Deer, Moose, anything to get me there.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

I don't hunt with horses so I am clueless about that, but I hunt wilderness and national forest land. You don't need a guide to hunt either one. If you have horses, they are great for packing in a camp and getting meat out of the woods. Just go man. I think hunting out of camper is the best way to go. You come back to the camper each night, warm-up, dry off, cook a good meal, then get after it the next day. If you have a camper parked at a locked gate or trailhead, most guys will stay out of that basin, knowing that is where you are.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Do you have any points built up in any states? Whats your shooting iron?(gun bow muzz.) Colorado lets you into the Wilderness. Bulls aren't the biggest though. My friends havn't drawn Wo for 3 years now.(elk)????
Like MT said just pick one & get out there!
Good luck J

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Shato,
If you wanna go every year Colorado OCT are the way to go,Montana a WY are draw and due to points can take some time.
You don't need a guide only when you get a outfitter sponserd licence.You can apply for a Big game combo and get a Deer A and a Elk (depending on what area is whats leagle).

Since you mentioned a Wilderness hunt,you must be talking about horse and mules.The way I figure it for a weeks hunt for 2 guys is about 6 horses(2 to ride and 4 to pack).
Your going to need Pack saddles and riggings,panierrs,rope,lead ropes and halters.Now the ones you ride are going to need briddles,halters,lead ropes & saddles.
You are going to need hobbles or run a picket line or portable corrall.Plus pack food for the animals like pellets or hay.
You need a tent,frame,stove,saw,tarps,rope stakes,stakes,ax,hammer,nails,duct tape, cooking & eating utensils and food.
That should get you started then pack all your normal gear like clothes,hunting supplies,hunting gear and survival gear like first aid and locator becon and flares.
It take alot of cash to get started but if you doit over a couple years and have a buddy to help split the costs it's not so bad.
OR
You can do the camper hunt,I have done this also.Pick a area and set-up a camp just out side of the area you wan't to hunt and go every morrning.This offers alot of mobility and plus takes away from the added cost of horses,or you can doit with horses also.I have put a pick-up camper in the bed and pulled the horse trailer behind and hunted that way.
It's up to you and what you need,a good one to talk to is EKM as he has it down to a science.
BBJ

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

BBJ,,

We (myself & father) own 5 horses so I/we would have to make do with that many. I got all the riding tack I would need including rifle scabbards. I don't own a pack saddle or panniers though. I've helped my guides tie a pack sadle on each of my hunts. Though the diamond hitch would take some practice to remember.... Maybe a wilderness hunt would be a little much for the first trip or two. I just like to get back where I wouldn't have to worry about running into other folks... Like I said a elk tag isn't a must, a good Mule deer hunt would be just as enjoyable to me.

I like the ideaof a wilderness hunt but a camper hunt would be nice. Can you get away from the crowds in areas where you can pull a camper? My dad owns a 24' fifth wheel but I don't know how far in you could pull a camper that size.

Like I said any input is greatly appreciated. This year is certainly out but maybe next year. I don't have any points, as I said my previous trips have been through a guide.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Take a look at www.sombrero.com. Located new Craig and Meeker, CO. They have good horses.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

The only place in this state that I would say there are crowds is over in the breaks during archery season. In the west side of MT if you walk in about 1 mile, you will lose most people, just the way it is. I rarely run into another hunter.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Well heck Shato you got 1/2 the battle won.
5 is good now all you need is 3 pack saddles and panniers,or you could tie your own packs(I like panniers).Get your self a good 10x12 wall tent,some cots,a good stove and you are about set.

You can get away from the crowds,but it depends what time of year and where you go.I can go to the Belts for instance and pitch a tent in the middle of November and not see anyone Tues.- Thurs,but when Friday,sat,and Sun roll around it's campers and atvs all day long.But thats be side the point all they do is drive the roads and as far as some trails go.I get out and few hours walk and I don't see a soul.It all depends on where you go and what time of year,like Thanksgiving.It's the last week and EVERYONE is out and about.I try to be done by this week,cause I have family that wants to hunt then and it is hard to concentrate on your own tags when others wanna go over there or here or what ever.
There are some good areas around(camp and ride in or back-country)the Bob,Scapegoat,Cabinets and Absorkas that offer some camping and hunting from,but you have to do some scouting to get good spots.I like to go in the middle of the week and set my stuff up and hunt.
If you ever get over this way,I could show ya some spots around the Belts,not as pristine as the back country but as enjoyable.
BBJ

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Go get yourself a map of the Bob Marshall Wilderness. It would take a lifetime to hunt and explore all that. If you want to get away and lose yourself--- there ya go!!!

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Input from another montanan...

I hunt with horses every year...i do two different kinds

Archery- We pack in (usually take two trips 3-4 horses...) and hunt from a base camp that consists of 12x12 wall tent, cots, and bags good enough to -40....cots make a WORLD of difference...We pack with softside Sadlle panniers (they fit over traditional saddle) and we carry traditional saddle panniers that fit behind saddle (like cantly bag, and saddle bags...(personal opinion, Trail Max makes the best system in world!!!) We usually come out once or twice during two week hunt, either to take out meat or to pack in more food...

Gun Hunt- we do a mixed hunt, it is a hunt from our horse trailer and off road (eight miles on dirt road) we sleep in horse trailer (goosneck living quarters) with propane heat etc. VERY cozy...and then we ride horses from camp every day...this is a VERY nice way to hunt....we still set up wall tent and stove etc. etc. but this is luxury (for hunting)

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

If you do not already have much of the elk camp gear, another option may be to have an outfitter provide you with a "drop camp." The outfitter sets up the camp, rides you in, checks up on you to pack out meat periodically, but you are on your own to do your own hunting and cooking. Less expensive than a fully guided/outfitted hunt.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

MTdream,

You're in Kalispell. All ready to go? Do you hunt in or around the valley or do you head off to other parts of the state.

My buddy hauled camp in yesterday with his horses. I loaded my pack last night, already losing sleep thinking about Saturday.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

yeppers, am here in Kalispell...I hunt down south of Bozeman (it is where I am from)...

wenthome for lunch, shot a few groups in the wind...good practice, and Fall is CLEALRY in the air!!!

Yes, I am sleeping rarely!!!! Plenty o time to sleep in camp!!

Keep hearing words about nice antler size due to weather in Spring etc. etc.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

MT,
It's not only the elk,but MAN!!! do I have a couple of hog mulies around the house.I was watching one last weekend or so that when he was scrachinghis back flanks he was doing it with his FRONT FORKS!!! I'm geussing a strong 180's buck and the one with him was no slouch either 160's.
I leave Friday and I can't wait,no sleep can't work it's kill'in me.
BBJ

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

One small point, you do NOT need an outfitter to hunt MT wilderness asa non-resident. That very silly rule only goes in WY.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

that is AWESOME to hear!!!! the area I hunt south of Bozeman has some incredible muleys too...friend of mine had the number 3 in the state P&Y for a while and the one we saw last year made it look like a dwarf...it was SOLID 180+ really nice deep forks, and REALLY nice width on him...So I canot wait to see if he is hanging out and what he looks like this year...we have routinely seen him, but I am not a big muley hunter prefer elk and elk alone, but we have a ranch with river bottom so I hunt the whiteyes there)

look forward to hearing about your hunt...I too leave Friday for some hunting on the ranch, then next friday pack into elk camp!!! sat up till 12:20 last night watching Primos Big BUlls 9 last night talk about not being able to sleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MTdream

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Ok, lots of talk about Wilderness...I am sure I will step on toes...and I dont mean to, just trying to share advice to the orginial thread writer..

I grew up in Montana, hunted HEAVILY in archery, not so much gun, but a week or so in Gun season...killed enough elk and deer..I share that not as bragging but to set the stage...

I have not personally, been blessed to get into loads of elk in our wilderness areas...I have found those areas to also not produce the massive tophy class that people seek...So for me personally, and the crews I have hunted with, we have rarely hunted wilderness areas (over the years) this was mainly due to game density, and not due to terrain or difficulty in hunting...I have horses, and pack horses etc.

All that being said...It ALL depends upon what type of hunt you want...want a wilderness experience? no roads, less people, and pristine streamns and lakes? I woudl HIGHLY suggest our wilderness areas...The experience of the packing and riding is nearly unmatchable!!!

However, if you want really good caliber location, and more critters, and better chances for MONSTER bulls...I would suggest hunting in the areas with close proximity to Yellowstone Park...i.e. Gallatin Drainage (South of Bozeman), Ennis Drainage (South of Ennis, both east and west side), or Paradise Valley (livingston, south)...All these are remendous areas,and afford you the ability to get back away from it all, and get into some incredible elk during archery season...However, all these areas have Grizzly in them too, so you need to be careful!!!

Just some suggestions...and personally, I use Google earth and terraserver to initially scout areas, adn then go play in them in the summer to look them over...but I have my honey hole I goto every year, and has not failed me but I always look for new areas, or see how they are shifting patterns...I keep meticulous records on where I see elk, what sex elk, and time of year I see them etc.

It is all a process...but I will remind you that the age old adage is true...20% of the hunters get 80% of the elk....it is always the most prepared and the people putting in the most effort...Elk are TOUGH!!!! and SMART!!!! and they will make you look like a FOOL!!!

one other hint I would give in some of these heavily hunted areas...and BBJ alluded to it...Some of the BEST critters are located between the heavily hunted areas, and the back of the bus areas...i.e. they hide in that zone between where the guys hunt from the roads, and where the guys on horse pack in....so there is a REALLY nice middle zone at roughly 1 mile in-4 miles in, that really never gets hunted...

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Shato,

I also was reminded in another post about a book written by an outfitter that used to guide in the Bob Marshall Wilderness (several suggested hunting there)

I read it and enjoyed it, and think that it might help with some of the stuff you are seeking...it is on Amazon here is the link...the Book is titled the Phantom Ghost of Harriet Lou...

http://www.amazon.com/Phantom-Ghost-Harriet-Other-Stories/dp/0918981042/sr=8-4/qid=1157039216/ref=sr_1_4/103-6805188-2519842?ie=UTF8

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Great advice guys .I say your young enought to start slow like a truck camp into the smaller hills like bare back said ,the little belts [they are not little]or the likes then slowly gather the thing to spike camp away from the truck camp for shot stays,then from there to a more confortable pack in camp .the horseswill slowly learn there jobs with you.God I love to explore.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Thanks for all the advice guys! One more question: I've been told that my horses won't be able to handle the altitude. I'm in Missouri at approx. 1000 ft. I would assume that it would take them a day or two to acclimate and then be fine but some folks have told me that I could kill a low land horse in the mountains. Any thoughts?

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

I wouldn't know that but I know my friend would bring his mules from portland or. to the the top of the bitterroots with no proplems.

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Oh you probaly could if you realy rode them hard and they were out of shape.Heck you could kill Montana horse if you are riding them hard and they are out of shape,seen that happen about 8 years ago.The problem when that happens is you have to pack your horse out cause of the bears,plus you lost a horse.Some guys afew years ago abandond a dead horse in the Bob and Forest Service blew it up with explosives and the bears were eating horse all over the place.Bad deal cause then the bears get the taste for horse flesh.
Heck by the time you get here the horses should be fine,if your worried alow a day to ride them for a few hours and get them used to the alltitude.
BBJ

RE: Calling all DIY' ers, got a ???
 

Generally, I agree with your assessment of wilderness areas, although there are certainly exceptions. (The Gila Wilderness in NM, maybe the High Uintahs in UT are awesome.)

I like wilderness for the ability to get away from other hunters. In bowhunting and calling elk especially, I'll take 1/2 the number of elk to avoid tripping over other hunters. I hate hearing a bugle and having to assess whether it's really an elk or just another nimrod.