When will it end?
 

It just seems to me that there are more and more outfitters that are leasing up more and more lands. In my home state of KS. and here in CO., and every where you look. I've seen outfitters offering everything from prairie dog hunts, to coyote hunts, to elk, to antelope, etc. Will the market ever slow down or eventually will hunting really be a rich man's sport only here in the states?
What do you think? Is it going to get worse before it gets better, or is hunting on a slippery slope with no hope of turning around?
In my home state of KS., for instance, farmland prices are going through the roof. Land is selling for prices way beyond the "profitable" line. In other words, farm land that has been culitvated for years, is being sold at a price way beyond what the land can return in crop incomes, so farmers are not buying i. Instead, outfitters, businessmen, and hunters with deep pockets, that want it only for hunting purposes are buying it up. When will it end, or will it?
Is this the situation in your neck of the woods? WIll there be a "price crash" in the future?
I'd like to think that eventually, there will be too many outfitters that not enough hunters/clients, and things will turn around. BUT will it?
Enough of my rant. I just hate what I am seeing. It's not good for the average hunter, who doesn't have "connections" in places to hunt!!

RE: When will it end?
 

Howler I'm sorry to say but no.I don't think there are enough of us free lance hunters to change that.
It's the same here in Montana,land to high,places getting shutdown yearly due to leases.We can not change that unless we get involved at the goverment level,maybe imposing taxes on game animals the same as you would with a natural resorce like timber and oil.I don't know what the awswer is but the way it is going "average joe hunters" will be gone in the next 20 years.

What we could do is impose aWorld wideboycott against outfitters and drive prices down but I dout that many would be in favor of that.
BBJ

RE: When will it end?
 

I am an average Joe hunter that refuses to pay the prices the
outfitters want. It is ridiculous the price that some are asking.
I hunt public land and if I am not successful than I feel that is
what God has intended. I do not alone go after the kill. I
enjoy the solitude of beingaway from the daily grind.I agree
with the thought of boycotting, but am a realist as far as
thinking it would do any good.
My daughter showed some interest in going this year to spend time with DAD so her and I are traveling to Montana this year. She has me so wrapped around her finger. LOL

RE: When will it end?
 

The only reason I have of any "hope", currently, is if ya go down to the "Hunts/Outfitters" forum, and look at the number of posts that have 0 replies to them. This gives me"hope" that the market is growing faster than it can sustain for any length of time, so maybe, just maybe!!! Kind of looks likethe market for high priced/outfitted hunts is out running the growth of number of clients!!

RE: When will it end?
 

Its the same here in NE Wyo. a ranch wont pay for itself like they used to. And its the same reason.

RE: When will it end?
 

I am a former KS resident and have seen the same thing happen in Kansas. The best inventment I have made was buying some farm land in Kansas.

It is even worse here in Arkansas.Here ifyou don't personally know a land owner or have relation that owns land, you have to hunt public land. Hunting public land here in Arkansas is much worse than hunting public land in Kansas or Colorado. Plus the deer are not much bigger than my pointer.

In Colorado I have seen tresspass fees double in the last 3 to 4 years. I think land prices are going up because of outfitters/hunters buying land or leases and also because of CD and Savings Accounts interest rates. People would rather buy land than put their money in the bank. Bank interest rates are going up so that may slow down the increase in land prices.

I don't know where it is going to stop. The average hunter is going to have a problem. Thats one reason why I started field trialing.

RE: When will it end?
 

Its happening everywhere. The bottom line is, THE BOTTOM LINE. As long as there are hunters willing to pay the price, someone will be there to fill the demand. It will get tougher all the time to find places to hunt. More pressure will be put on public land as long as there is public land. As many know, there is talk of selling off public land to get it back on the tax list. Time will tell but I know we have already seen the best of times for hunters.

RE: When will it end?
 

It is inevitable that as the total human population grows, the consumption rate of land for various activities (housing developments, infrastructure,urban sprawl, etc) will ever constrictpotential use for those that want to utlilize "unimproved" land for outdoor purposes.These "non-hunting" uses, imo, threaten hunting opportunitesway more than outfitters, althoughoutfitters may bethe interim probalem until land development takes hold. That's why you got to love those vast tracts of public land in the west and why land-owner cooperation programs--like block management-are so critical to quality access.

Generally, with the continued growth and invasion of humans, things in the natural world will continue to degrade. All we can do is plan well thought out conservation programs and try to enjoy every moment while we're "above ground".

RE: When will it end?
 

I think there are a limited number of rich people who can pay expensive outfitters's fees. I know I'm not contributing to any outfitter's bankrole at present or for the foreseeable future. I have a place that I hunt deer for free in Oklahoma (I live in North Texas). The deer are not big, and the antlers are not big, but this is OK with me. I have gone pronghorn hunting in NE Wyoming and paid what I felt was a modest trespass fee of $200 total for 2 people to hunt for two days on a 1200 acre ranch. The pronghorn bucks do not have big horns here, but again, this is OK with me and we had a good, successful hunt. I'm going elk hunting on public land in the Weminuche Wilderness area in Colorado this October. Again, I'm hunting on my own and not paying any outfitter.

I'm not sure the outfitters are locking up ALL hunting opportunities or only the best 10% of hunting opportunities. If you insist on hunting for trophies -- heads which are well above average -- I can see that you are going to be bumping shoulders with business men who are going to try to lock down the access and try to charge higher prices to the sports they offer to take into these locked down areas. If this is indeed what the hang-up is about, a solution may be to just understand that hunting doesn't have to be about bagging the biggest rack or the biggest horns.

RE: When will it end?
 

What a coincidence! I just got my American Hunter/NRA magazine and they have a lengthy article titled, "Will You Be Priced Out", and they cover this topic from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Alsatian, this whole topic isn't about antlers at all. It's about the average Joe hunter having a place to hunt 20, 30, 40 years from now. Just a couple points from the above mentioned article. For those of us that live out "West", 85% of us use public lands while only 32% use public lands in the Midwest. For obvious reasons, since KS. for example, only has about 2% of it's lands that are public owned, 14.1% of Tenn. is public owned, 29.2% of Florida is public owned. So in those states, there is little public land to hunt. Obviously, AK. has the most, but most of it is not very assessable!
Now, they do mention that many states, inclusing KS., have established some sort of "walk-in" program, and these programs are helping open private lands to the public for hunting, which is great. BUT I have seen in KS., where outfitters simply out priced the state, and ended up leasing land from the farmer/rancher that the state had leased to start with.
We can't simply put all the blame on outfitters, I'm not trying to, because there are other factors involved. Such as land develoment that swallowed up a measly 2.2 million acres of land from '92 to '02!! And who knows how much more since!! YIKES!!!!!!!![:'(]
With so little public lands in many states, the health of the "walk-in" programs is of high importance to many hunters. According to this article, "As of May 2006, private-land-access programs have opened 26,799,824 acres to hunters." That's pretty darn amazing to me, and this is the only bright spot that I can see in a lot of hunters futures, and the up and coming hunters future. If you don't live in an area with a high percentage of public lands, things aren't looking too good, BUT there is hope that we all will always have a place to hunt.
Lot's of other stuff in the article, and I find it really not as bad as it may seem. It's just that I am constantly seeing land developed, posted, re-zoned, and it just simply scares the pants right off me sometimes when I wonder how many more years until all my huntin' spots are gone!!:(

RE: When will it end?
 

[:o]Public land in New Hampshire is good hunting except the nons have walking trails throughout and make it hard. Land is being developed at an alarming rate the animals live in suburbia not in the woods. The fishing at the good spots is take a number and wait to get in.Seems that this is a problem everywhere. The goverment is not the answer everything they touch only gets worse.[:o]

RE: When will it end?
 

It will never end as long as politicians can be paid to think and vote.
Blame government, big money ,special intrest lobby groups,and Non- res vs res. competion foraccessas well asevery TV dude or Group that tells you your big buck or bull is around the corner.
Look at the record.
non- res. Tag prices shooting up. prefrence point RAPE!,wilderness areas closed to hunters without guides,land locked Federal properties withlucartive grazing, water, andmineral rights. WE Pay for federal land programs, management and use by private individuals, yet WE the public in particular the hunting public get less and less for our money.

Don't tell me a wyoming increase on a moose prefrence point from $7.50 to $75.00 per year was not a money motivated decision for the well to do,I want my last 8 years worth of points back! a res deer tag does not cost that much!

I can as a non- res.walk in a wilderness area without a gun and get lost as well as anyres. without a compass. Why does a non-res with a gun need a guide? You won't get a stat from Wy showing more lost non-res hunters than res hunters.Trust me Ive called.This is discrimination in any form. Protectionism in another and anti- hunter on another front. yet it exists.
Huntingaccess is a issue and state gov's manipulating law around federal lands to keep us out for whatever reason is wrong, to protect a few guide businesses is even worse.
There would be hell to pay if the anti's tried to pass a bill saying we can't hunt federal lands. Yet it goes on in our own ranks.

All need to find out the skinny on federal land use BLM, Wilderness areas and the benefits to some industries, grazing, mineral, water, and other things our taxes pay for and see how federal land is manipulated to keep you out of prime hunting locations. This is why a forty acer ranch in colorado with jack on it can sell for a million bucks, because of the access it denies you. It affects land ownership. Take a look at a plat map and see who is owning our west and where the intrests lies.

Too bad that less and less of us will be going west while herd sizes explode and get larger and larger beyond their rightfull carring capcities.

I am sure there will be a federal program proposedto pay to help reduce the herd and help the poor people affected by it.

I hold much of this in contempt of our rights as hunters, tax payers and individuals.

RE: When will it end?
 

I think it will go like this ,the hunting will be left to the rich thanks to us the fish &game and the money eating goverment.The rich are the minority and the majority rules.when that happens we will lose hunting as we know it now.I't sad but common sence tells us the direction of the road we are on. p.s.wish I could spell.

RE: When will it end?
 

Let me say at the start that its refreshing to read different opinions on this topic that are reasonable regardless of the opinion the writer holds.
I'm a New Yorker who has hunted big game for 39 years. I am hardly rich and there is often month left over at the end of the money. Several years back I got involved in elk hunting in the West. Our first trip, in Montana, we used a good friend to help us set up a spike camp. We used his horses but our equipment. The cost of the equipment like tents and stoves collected over the years is quite high. Not to mention getting all that stuff out to Montana. He purchased food for us before we arrived and we packed it in. This was a great hunt but there were serious drawbacks to doing it.
First, we were unfamiliar with the area and wasted far too much time scouting instead of hunting. Secondly, recovery of an elk takes everyone out of the "woods" while you recover a single animal.
Most hunters unfamiliar with an area most certainly won't have a spare friend with horses just down the road so they are extremely limited in what they can attempt to do. Add to this the time and cost of travel, lodging, etc. and you have a major problem.
Complain if you will about the cost of outfitters and they do get a lot of money. However, they don't make a lot of money. As pointed out the landowner has discovered he has a cash crop on his land and that is the wildlife found there. The outfitter has some extraordinary costs in running their operation and I, as an eastern hunter in love with hunting the west, have little choice but to pay the cost of doing this thing we do.

RE: When will it end?
 

I refuse to pay anyone to hold my hand. There is great hunting available on public land for those of us willing to work at it. I've taken P&Y bucks 2 of the last 3 years.

What bothers me is the spreading of this leasing cancer to our public lands, done in the form of rediculous NR fees and sportsmans auction tags. This will doom average lunch bucket joe hunter.

RE: When will it end?
 

eventualy; private firearms ownership and hunting will be reserved for the ultra wealthy.

public land will be a thing of the past (controlled by big money)

hopefully orginizations like the NRA and RMEF will postpone the tyde of urbanized tyranical disintigration of freedom and our heritage wellbeyond the scope of my mortality. but there is no guarantee.

early